I’ll Just Leave the Country and Pay Nothing!

DSC01152_2 (2)_2One of the most common threats a lawyer may hear from a beleaguered client is the cry that “I might as well quit work, if I have to pay that much to my ex-wife”. Another is “I’ll just leave the country and then he/she will get nothing.”

Usually these threats are spoken out of frustration and rarely are they acted upon, however, from time to time a parent will abandon his or her family, rather than obey a court order that is perceived by them to be onerous and unfair.

In a recent Ontario case, Hans Mills did just that. He left the country to avoid paying his ex-wife, Donna Mills, spousal and child support of $3772.00 per month, $2235.00 for the children and $1537.00 for his wife.

A very bleak situation for Ms. Mills who is caring for a 10-year-old with cancer in remission, a Downs Syndrome 14-year-old, a depressed teen, age 17, and a 19-year-old son on methadone treatment. How did everything go so wrong?

After separating in 2005, the Mills reached an agreement in 2008 which gave Ms. Mills sole custody of the children, and the family home, valued at $1.2 million (with a $600,000 mortgage), in exchange for a payment to Mr. Mills of $175,000. Because she received the lion’s share of the equity in the home, she agreed to forego spousal support. Mr. Mills earned approximately $100,000 per year and would pay child support.

Three years after their agreement, money issues began to simmer and a trial was scheduled to deal with the problems that had arisen, including Ms. Mill’s alleged inability to work. In an interim application before the trial, the Court ordered Mr. Mills to pay his ex-wife spousal support, including retroactive support and court costs, in spite of the fact that she had received two-thirds of the family home.

Recognizing that the interim order was a precursor to worse things to come, Mr. Mills sold his house, cashed in his pension, paid his bills, and moved to the Philippines, a country where he had done business for years and a country that had no support treaty with Ontario.

Ms. Mills had always feared he would just leave and implored the government agency that collects child and spousal support to register a lien against his house and seize his Canadian and European passports, but to no avail. And then he was gone. His email to his ex-wife read:

“The result of the legal instrument which you recently designed and implemented
is that there is no possibility of a comfortable life or a (secure) retirement for me in
Canada at all. Therefore, I have left the country to seek greener pastures elsewhere
and will never return. Well done Einstein. Good luck and good bye.”

Ms. Mills is perilously close to financial, emotional, physical, and spiritual bankruptcy, but says she will not let her children down, despite the dire circumstances.

As for “Father of the Year”, his actions are despicable. His departure was fueled by a court order to pay spousal support, which he now uses to justify his decision to stop supporting his children. He has expressed hope that one day he can reconcile with his children, “but not in Canada, a morally bankrupt state”.

It is Hans Mills that is “morally bankrupt”.

Lawdiva aka Georgialee Lang

479 thoughts on “I’ll Just Leave the Country and Pay Nothing!

  1. I had a similar case of international flight. A woman came to me wanting advocacy assistance, as her ex-husband had gone to a foreign jurisdiction, to avoid the financial consequences of divorce Court Orders. She bought in all her documents…a box full. After a careful read, I empathized with the dad, as he had been unfairly dealt with by the Courts, even after appeal. So being a professional man and very smart, he decided to exercise a desperate option, and reestablish his career elsewhere, by leaving the country as a last resort. He never abandoned his kids, and did his best to stay in contact, over the obstruction of the mother. He bought the kids things directly, so that mother could not get her hands on money. He paid for holidays etc. He was determined not to put money into the hands of his ex-wife. Upon review of the Court material, it was clear that the father tried to make the best out of a no-win situation. It was his recourse in response to the Appeal Courts and the biased Family Law system that was subject to manipulation by the mother (and her lawyer). The documents revealed that the Courts were unwilling to see how it was manipulated, and that there were other ways of looking at the best interest of children and created dependency. It was a rare case, but it opened my eyes to how the system had been used for malevolent objectives. Even after years of loosing, the mother was still headstrong in not accepting the reality of the sad situation, and she still wanted revenge and further litigation. By the time the mother came to see me for help, one child had matured and moved out on their own, and established a normal but geographically distant relationship with the father, and had disconnected from the mother. The family lost about a million, through legal fees and mortgage foreclosure etc. Because the father was a medical professional, he could quickly move and re-establish himself. Many fathers do not have these options when they cannot pay for competent legal representation, and the taxpayer funds the other side with a seemingly bottomless pit of litigators.

      1. Because Mr. Mills departed after an interim order was made against him, it is very possible that the decision was made orally from the bench, which is very common with interim family law orders. Oral judgments are rarely reported.

    1. I actually managed to get in contact with Hans Mills after he went to the Philippines. From our conversation, I don’t have the resources to get set up there, but I do have the resources to go to Northern Iraq and live cheaply and incognito.

    2. It sure would be nice for someone to write a how to manual on the required steps to move to another country , cover things like getting the remaining money out of country , passports renewal , which countries do not enforce spousal agreements with Canada , can I return to Canada without being arrested as I’m researching at moving to another country to avoid losing everything no kids and wife has worked entire marriage . If anyone has done this and can help me avoid the pitfalls I’d be much appreciated.

      1. Complaining about what has happened to you isn’t going to fix the problem dicussing the case details and how shes ruined you’re life isn’t going to help you in anyway what so ever.

        Everybody has been screwed up by this shit not only you people. The goal is to work together to share knowledge on how to escape this life. I don’t like this anymore then anyone else but we got ourselves into this mess now lets work together and get ourselves out of this mess.

        Stop wasting this thread to discuss how badly you’ve been corrupted by lawyers ex wife and how much you have to pay. The real people who are really using this thread as a way to exit the country and start a knew life aren’t reading these three page papers you’re writing we are passing through this looking for people with valuable knowledge on the situation to shine some light know theres stil hope out there.

        Lets be more productive and get this discussion flowing again with real answers how to leave united states not write a book or a guide. But everyone throw out there answer and knowledge we can compare everything and figure out what will best suit each of are needs


      2. Rod I have read your comments and would like to know the same information. You went through this already and I am just getting started in this mess. Did you find the answers that you were looking for. I’d be interested in knowing. Can you contact me at happyanhealthy@gmail.com I’d love to know more. Thanks

    3. My husband is going through the same thing currently. We’re seriously considering this. He has always paid support for the past 15+ years and low and behold when his child turned 18 and they tried to close the case they found out they were collecting the wrong amount from an extremely old order that he can’t even remember signing, now they want the past due plus interest for a whopping total of $30k! Awful! He has no rights what so ever! And his money hungry ex is still sitting happy collecting all the government help that is handed to her.

      1. ad, you have my sympathies Sounds like my boyfriend’s ex. Totally nasty and greedy. We live in Alberta and the economy is rocky. right now with the oil fields and all Who made the mistake and HOW cold they have made it? Sounds incredibly stupid and ridiculous to me.

      2. Your husband should have kept his his vows. You know….agreement? His ex shouldn’t be his ex. Why don’t you get a second job so you all can afford to pay his ex wife? His responsibility is to her first financially not you. I don’t feel bad for anyone paying because there’s usually a damn good reason they’re divorced. If a divorce occurs and there is infidelity or abuse then the person at fault should pay. Stay married and uphold your vows or simply support two families.

      3. How do you know her husband didn’t keep his vows? How do you know that his EX isn’t the one who cheated? You sound like a white-knighting apologist for a corrupt worthless legal system. White knights like you always take the side of women and blame men because you think it makes you noble or something. Women initiate 70+% of divorces, and you can’t choose to stop her from divorcing you. You assume a lot and then act all holier-than-thou. I’m not impressed.

  2. Im in the situation where I paid a sh-itload of money to my ex (virtually all over our liquid savings) she then went after me in the courts to pay child support and am now paying 70,000 yen a month (around $US900) and currently that eats up a third of my part time take home salary. Come January it will be closer to 4/5ths. Court is not amenable to reducing payments as they decided thats what I can afford. Unlike the above guy I can no simply disappear overseas.

  3. Dear Georgialee,

    He made 100k a year in Canada which leaves him with 53,000.

    He was shelling out most of that to child support ( not tax deductible ) leaving him with very little to even pay rent let alone live.

    And you think HE is morally bankrupt? Are you on Crack? The judge, lawyers, and the wife should all lose their licenses and be jailed for what they have done to that poor man. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking he is a deadbeat dad.

    She was a greedy lazy woman who used the system to cripple her husband and destroy his life and his kids lives. Men don’t leave the country to avoid paying reasonable support, which the tables currently are garbage and unreasonable. They leave or commit suicide from these types of decisions. Yet where are you with that? As of 2010 there was 2.5 BILLION in unpaid support, most likely because guess what, the Dad or mom can’t afford it. Darrin White committed suicide after he was ordered to pay twice his income to his wife.

    Ms. Mills deserves everything she gets. She should have been smart and learned the old axiom, you can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin em once. Now she is paying dearly for her laziness and stupidity.

    The fact that you think she is the victim here is the BIGGEST joke of all.

    1. Completely agree with you. The system
      In Canada is absolutely ridiculous and geared towards lazy woman. There should be a legal document that a couple signs that if a woman wants to keep a child and the father wants nothing to do with it, the woman should be completely responsible. The current laws just make it possible for useless wh***s to sleep with tons of guys and have several kids to be used as a source of income instead of working like a normal person.

      1. Same in New Zealand,I’m so depressed I’ve been thinking about killing my self for the last 7 years.It’s not right to destroy a man from falsely claimed moral high ground,impoverish him,reduce his ability to be his kid’s hero,removing his ability to provide for his family and destroying his self worth.I have grieved for myself and my son who I would have ideally had grown up with siblings and a solid family unit.The woman always new I did not want to have children because of my fearful childhood,OF WHICH was not ever brought into our relationship or my sons.When she told me she was pregnant she barricaded herself behind furniture like a naughty child,I think she thought this would make me snap,I just cried and tried to pretend I was happy and said that I would support her no matter what.She replied that I don’t have to be named,it doesn’t have to be mine.I tried to have an honest go of things,bought everything for a household,family car and it wiped out my deposit on a house.
        He was conceived after we had split up out of what I perceive as spite and selfishness on her part and poor judgement on mine.I love my son more than my life which is also probably the only thing keeping me going…his right to a dad who loves him.These days though I wonder what negative influence or use an anxious,depressed father has.

        I am now 32 years old and on a sickness benefit that just sustains me,my anxiety is like the fear of death,it makes me feel sick and I see no hope.I was a responsible person who worked hard,10 years paying my taxes as a Plumber and 3 years as a soldier, a few others during my teens.I now have nothing and frequently feel demolished and hopeless at any future that fixes anything.

        Child support makes it possible for career Welfare Mums to exist,it also enslaves honourable fathers doing the best they can.I Sometime’s wish that maybe the state kept out of it and that the woman’s family would have to support her first so that she would be accountable for her actions it would also have inherent other benefits like her being answerable to someone for her action’s(not bringing strange men home,drugs/alcohol) and her parents footing the bill for the negative aspect’s of her upbringing.Also if the father doesn’t want to support his child he probably shouldn’t be around the child and this would be a self governing arrangement.The woman who failed her relationship would have at least brought the child into an example of a relationship that works with both a good male and female roll model and have 3 times the adult support instead of one part time mum and daycare.
        Aside from reality not being that utopian you could at least have a case by case support arrangement instead of society freely working to degrade it’s self in guaranteed career welfare checks.Giving all the power of your self determination to the state is giving up on life and leeching off other’s even if you deserve a break hard done by legitimate “school of hard knocks” women.

        I’m considering leaving the country for good in pursuit of a meaningful life of prosperity and self determination so as to make something of my self,perhaps become a roll model that does not let a slavery law dictate how far he can rise in life.With tax and child support half of what I would earn of not much at all,for my education and Current Health more over is about the same as being a sickness beneficiary of the state.For the past 4 years I have thought it would be an impossible catch 22 to leave my son for a career offshore that made me independent financially but heartbroken and guilty for not trying to be there for my son.I have a rage inside me that turns to tears.

        If I was to leave what countries would be best as far as having no agreements with my home government in New Zealand.

      2. I would totally leave the country if I were you. Some may think that being born in a country like Mexico is unfortunate, but I’ve found out it has huge advantages, such as the government doesn’t give a s$#% about you and so they also can’t enforce anything on you. I haven’t paid taxes in 10 years, actually I haven’t paid taxes ever! and that’s because most taxes just end up in the president’s new home or plane, etc. Also if I marry and get divorced there’s little enforcement the government could do on me and people don’t take things to court as they know it is useless.

        But, if I were in your situation, I would totally move to another country. It is totally possible, in fact, I’m currently living in the Czech Republic, I work as a translator online and found out it is easy to get long term visas here for 2 years and renewable, so it is totally legal, what’s more, there are many English speaking expats who can legally get permits to teach English. $530 USD per month get me my own apartment with utilities and internet. Food expenses are less than $400 including dinning out most of the time. I make about $2000 per month on my freelance so the rest is just savings and traveling and enjoying life.

        You can also get away with this life in Mexico (and get an apartment by the beach), Thailand, Phillipines, Indonesia, etc. Like they mentioned, not paying alimony is not a crime, but it would fup you credit, but at least you can get a good life anywhere else. You already know the system is broken, in fact, it has changed little since the times of Hammurabi’s code, from which is based.

        Just remember that your ex is now probably banging other guy and living off alimony while you can’t get a new girl since English speaking cultures put women in a pedestal and the men there always act desperate plus they have unrealistic expectations and now that you’re broke they wont like you.

        The good news is that in the countries I mentioned it is so easy to meet women, and that’s one of the reasons why I moved here. Everything is possible, just figure how to get a job in another country or do the online freelance. Cheers.

      3. Thats what my ex is doing. I was an idiot though and did the dna test, now instead of not paying and not seeing my kid, its paying and still not seeing my kid.

      4. thats exactly what im saying!!! I agree with you completely these welfare slags just have kida for income

    2. Agree with Tebsen 110% It’s time for the family court system to be flushed out and all divorce attorney and judges pay the fathers for the rest of their stupid lives.

    3. I agree……..The Court should not leave a person destitute! Shame on them! BUT,……….The man SHOULD definitely, ON HIS OWN, be sending money to his ex wife for their children! The Court should NOT have to tell him this! He should WANT to do it! They ARE his kids, she is taking care of them and there is no reason in the world he should not be, sending them money each month to help pay for their food, shelter, electricity they use, clothing, medical insurance, etc. It IS despicable IF he is NOT sending money each month to them. He should keep copies of the canceled checks as proof of he is helping to support his children. IF he is not sending support money for his children, he SHOULD be ashamed of himself!

      1. Let’s review. He paid $775,000 in home equity and cash, plus $45,000 a year in child support for three years for a total of $910,000 AFTER TAX dollars! That is enough to last at least 30 years, or more, if you ditch the mansion and live at the median family income level. Plus, she was making $100,000/year for three years until she mysteriously couldn’t work anymore. I guess you are arguing he should still pay the $45,000/year voluntarily, but you should be able to see that it’s just to fund her extravagant lifestyle, and not that the kids will go hungry. I’ve known plenty of guys who pay child support, and the courts apparently expect the guys to work to pay, and then go home to watch TV because there isn’t money left for anything else. It’s just like being in jail.

      2. So stupid. I’m a 31 year old man with who makes at most 30 k. My ex always made more money and when my son was born had insurance. She quickly left her job dropped his and her insurance took a crap job with no benefits and a huge pay cut. Than She left me. Took me to court for full custody. I argued for 50 50 shared since I don’t make alot of money and in fact love my son. Now I have joint custody and get to see my son 8 days a month. She gets half my pay and seeks assistance through the state. She by the way never wanted our son. I talked her out of having an abortion and took care of my son until she upped and left. Now I have no life and should I not be able to pay I will surely have my right to my son taken away and probably be locked up. This is the United States! All the best to the Man/Father who who got away from this bullshit. Shame on those who thinks this is fair.

      3. You’re a jack—-. The only reason she fought so hard to keep the kids away from her husband is so that she could collect and live off of the child support that the father has to pay.

      4. Actually, no they are not his children. The ex-wife took them from him. They children are now hers. Could he take the children to his own home, thus removing her claim for so-called “child support”? No, because they are her children. She should pay for her own children, or admit she cannot do so and return them to their father.

      5. But if the Father is willing to take the children half time, Mom objects and takes him to court. It’s not about the children, it’s about the money.

      6. Yeah, he should pay someone who has quasi kidnapped his children through the use of force via the “family” law system. All he would be doing is funding his own estrangement.

    4. Exactly, finally someone understands… The whole child support spousal support system is bullshit. It’s legalized extortion and it’s not fair at all… I work 2 jobs and I still can’t survive because of child support… And I was entrapped… But yet I have to pay over 900 per month… I can’t even afford to heat my home or put food in my house… I begged DHS to please stop taking so much because I can’t afford it, so they lowered it by 10 dollars…. F—– leaches… This has forced me in a very dark place mentally. I have no life, I’m exhausted from working so much, and still can’t make ends meet… I really could use some help… I am literally at the end of my rope. I’ve contemplated suicide several times, leaving the country, or just buying a new identity. But not sure how to do it… Suicide might be the only way out for me the way things are looking… I just don’t know what to do anymore… I make 8 dollars an hour at one job, and 10 an hour at my second job… I have a 355.00 car payment a month, 400.00 for rent every month, 127.00 for my phone, 100.00 per week for heat, 50.00 per week for hot water and gas stove, 141.00 for insurance per month, 50.00 per week for gas in my car to get back and forth to work… So yea, no money for food, and if I do buy food, I have to go a week without heat in my house, and it’s winter time… I’m just out of ideas… If anyone has any info to a solution, can someone please call me and let me know or email me at andyhackett82@yahoo.com I could use any info I can get

      1. Andy I understand your desperation, having worked with dozens of clients who have faced similar problems. How many children are you supporting? Are you paying off arrears of support as well as current support? Does your State use child support guidelines? When was the last time the court reviewed your financial circumstances?

        If you are feeling suicidal please call a help line and get some support…there is light at the end of the tunnel…Georgialee

      2. Andy,……Don’t give up! If you have proof you are making $8 and $10 an hour and can verify the employment at these two jobs,…..file a motion on your own and ask for child support to be reduced. And show proof of all your monthly bills. Child support is suppose to be set by the income of both parties and the number of children. And you should be made aware as to how they came up with the $900 a month. You should know what your former partner’s income, if any, is.

        However, IF a judge thinks you are capable of bringing in more income, they may not reduce it. On another note, and fairly unrelated to the topic, I would say, you need to rethink your income future irregardless of the children. Do you really think you can live the life you want making $8 and $10 dollars an hour? I would look for higher paying jobs or try to get some training in a field you have an interest in so you can boost your salary, not only to help with child support, but for your own future.

      3. To EhterTheHumanRace,

        Thanks for sharing your very moving story. Good luck. I suggest to “walk away”. I knew someone in similar circumstances who chose to give up everything and start afresh. He is much happier now. And, no more “marriage” in the future. Women ok, marriage not ok.

      4. Andy…get the hell out of dodge! the court system is bias. They will not help you in any shape or form! get that through you head! life is too short…btw how do you know that money is going to your ex thug lovers? Theres lots of other places you can move to…people have be moving for years.Plan your exit!

      5. I’d leave man. Now I’m not saying dont support your kid. But when you are safely away from the reach of the courts, send what you can. Your kid has to eat, but so do you.

      6. Aside from cutting down on some expenses, I would try to get joint custody and force her to work as well. Children need both their parents, and divorce shouldn’t be a bonanza for the wife, while the husband is left struggling. An able bodied women can’t be expected to stay at home and be taken care of by their ex or the government. You are both responsible for making them, and as such, responsible for caring for them.

        If this was me, I would suggest to family court that you and your ex set up a home where the children live, and a small 1 bedroom or studio apartment nearby. Then you and your ex can take turns living with the children for 3 days and then staying at the apartment for 3. This is the fairest situation when finances are a limited, and also allows both of you the freedom to date and have a social life outside of the family.

        As for being entrapped, you’re a grown man who had the option to use condoms or get a vasectomy if you didn’t want children. No one put a gun to your head and made you do anything. We all make mistakes and have only ourselves to blame, remember that, accept that.

        Talk to the judge about lowering your child support payments, about factoring in your wife’s earnings, but to be honest, I think you would feel better about this situation if you at least had your children half the time. Discuss the living arrangements I suggested above, it too will help the judge see the fairness of it, and put your wife in your shoes 3 days a week. Fair is fair.

        Your car payment, phone bill and insurance seem somewhat high, and you should consider re-evaluating them. You can also look to get some training or education through government subsidies and programs to help increase your earning potential.

      7. “127.00 for my phone, 100.00 per week for heat, 50.00 per week for hot water and gas stove”

        $727 dollars per month for phone and utilities?!

    5. Agreed! I read the story, not just what was presented in the one-sided article. He was going to be left destitute without the money to even see his kids, assuming he would be “allowed” to. She hit the lottery on this one and just wanted more.

      1. reading over all of this commentary I’m not sure if I should feel better or worse. I went searching for answers as I just went thru hell in the judicial process.

        I was married 7 years and have 2 boys 8 and 6. My ex suffered anxiety which included hospital visits over the last 2 years of our marriage. I was holding on the best I could but in the end she punched out. Today I realize I’m much happier as I was holding on out of obligation and guilt for my boys. Our relationship did not include any abuse/financial issues (outside of the normal stuff) or drug/alcohol issues.

        When I moved out she immediately had her lawyer write a letter accusing me of planning on abducting the boys (obviously that never happened) then they wrote a letter saying I was an absentee dad (which I sent to her family and neighbours who immediately questioned her as I coached their kids soccer/hockey teams). During this time she attempted to audio tape me, she came into my new place and rifled thru all my cabinets, drawers, etc, and she showed up at my games to video tape me. I obviously felt harassed and asked her to keep her distance. Then on Father’s Day she did the unthinkable and denied me my parenting time and claimed I assaulted our youngest child who was 4 at the time. She took this to the ministry of children services and this resulted in an emergency court session with her getting 70/30 custody. After an investigation by the ministry and a costly section 211 I was vindicated and got 50/50 custody.

        Her lawyer put a freeze on our assets. My ex is from an extremely wealthy family and could continue to access her family wealth. I tried to sell one of my assets to fund a lawyer for court. She denied this as her brother is on the board of the financial institution I wanted to liquidate. So I had no choice but to represent myself. During this time my work was going to hell so I agreed to leave anyways.

        my ex works as a mortgage broker but also gets money from her family business. Her lawyer argued the money is an gift and therefore should not be counted as income. Also these gifts over the ten years we were together should be excluded and therefore should not be split with me. Meanwhile she argued all my excluded assets should not count as I lacked documentation showing that even though they know I had it before marriage it shouldn’t count.

        During the trial the judge enforced an order to have my funds released so I could get representation. But prior to that the judge (first year judge) was getting very frustrated with me and was starting to yell at me.

        During the trial I caught my ex lying about her drug use and that she lied during her section 211. But the judge dismissed this and said in her judgement that she felt she was very credible and forthright. She never said she didn’t believe me to be credible but she hated me it was so obvious.

        In the end, she completely ruled in my ex’s favor. I did get 50/50 custody. But my ex gets 70% of our assets. And I’m required to pay child support for the next 12 years and spousal for 5. This is to a woman who is from of the wealthiest families in Vancouver. It was like she completely disregarded all the attacks she had made on me.

        I made a mistake in trying to take the high road and I didn’t contest her testimony or her excluded assets. And they came after everything from me. I thought the judge would see thru this and rule 50/50. But it was not the case.

        My lawyer tells me taking this to an appeal is futile because at an appeal board they don’t go over facts again they only rule on the law being conducted properly.

        I’m at a loss here. Anyone have any ideas? I’m thinking the Phillipines or Nicaurauga is not such a bad idea. If it wasn’t for my boys I would be gone already. But starting to think what good I’ll be to them if they are Use to living in a mansion or going on a 34 ft boat with her and I’m living in a one bedroom.


    6. That Current Tab of unpaid Child Support Arrears in Ontario as of 2015 is over 3 Billion now! It will get Higher…Much, Much Higher!

    7. Thank you! Finally someone with some sense that can see through the skewed writing. A 19 year old in methadone treatment? Really?? Here, we call that an adult. A depressed 17 year old? Cry me a friggen river. In one year or less that is an adult and depression is not so rare in teens. A 10 year old in remission? She should be thanking God for her blessing (I wish I had that luck with my daughter, she is now deceased). And a child with Downs….all the children I have met with Downs have been very love able people. Has no one seen the video circulating of the man with Downs that now owns his own restaurant and is successful? You want to bleed men dry and then cry when they walk away to be able to simply survive. No one wants to slave their whole life only to be broke when they can no longer work cause they must support an adult child they had the poor misfortune to marry.

    8. Agreed, im going through a similar situation and i cant stand all this entitled bullshit these women spew, its about ruining the father not raising kids this system makes me sick and i dont blame him one but for leaving that situation

    9. Some men most certainly do skip country to avoid reasonable child support! Especially when they have children from previous relationships & decide they no longer want to take responsibility for their actions.

    10. The fact that you think he had the right to leave his wife and sick kids tells me you’re a damn idiot. Alimony is the best thing ever. If a man or woman wants to play the field and relive their youth then they can support two families. The person at fault in the divorce should pay. Don’t like it? Stay single or keep your pants up. Yes I feel sorry for a man or woman who willingly ruined a family and now cries bc the courts hit them where it hurts. Cry me a river.

      1. How cute! Mike assumes that a wife who gets vagina tingles, cheats, and leaves won’t get alimony. LOL.

        The system is rigged against men, and a smart man will never get married. A smart man will save up money and pay for a surrogate if he wants to have a kid. A wife is someone who can just cheat on you and then take you to the cleaners.

        Men who get married in THIS modern age are nothing but chumps asking to be taken to the cleaners when a wife gets vagina tingles for some random dude. AWALT.

        And don’t give me any BS about your special NAWALT unicorn that isn’t like that. I’m not buying that BS. And in my experience, the only thing that comes close to being a damn idiot, besides a SJW liberal is a traditional religious conservative.

  4. Pingback: PB
  5. I’ve been surfing online more than 3 hours, but never before have I discovered any attention-grabbing articles like yours. In my view, if all web owners and bloggers had good content, as you do, the web would be much more useful.

  6. Your interpretation of the story leaves out several key facts. The man in question was being forced to pay $48,000 a year, despite the fact that, after taxes, he only made $68,000 a year, leaving him working to the bone to live off of $20,000 a year while his wife lives in a $1.2 million dollar mansion with a guest house she can rent for $2,000 a month (more than he makes in a month after support payments). That is slavery, and no decent human being should be subject to it.

    1. Why must you burst her emotional bubble of indignation with facts? She had a good witch hunt going and you had to ruin it with the truth.

    2. You’d think anyone with half a brain will understand that there is no way a professional can leave and go on with his life like this!!! This is humiliating to see that judges who are supposed to be fair, just, and bilateral can’t get this!!!! Who elects these people? The lawyers who work with them all the time!!! Are they being elected by attorneys to support them after they sit on the bench. I wonder why it’s almost 90% of the fathers who loose all their assets and are left out in the cold in a divorce court? Someone please enlighten me

      1. I have read hundreds of BC divorce (division of assets, support) judgments at the BC courthouse libraries. I found less than 10 cases where the men appeared to have received spousal support, and all of those had “fine print”.

        .. as in: “The Big Print giveth, and the Fine Print taketh away.”

      2. Here…Let me enlighten you! The Whole Family and Criminal Court System has been infiltrated by the Feminist Agenda. They have virtually everything tilted in favor of Women…and I mean everything! Dads are relegated to being nothing more than Convenient Visitors and Walking ATMs for insufferable Victim Mentality Women. When you look at the Senate Committee and Supreme Court Hearings on various Bills or Laws, you will see who is advocating this nonsense N.O.W. or National Action Committee for the Status of Women. Mens Groups are Silenced or kept from Participating. It is a very Selfish and Tilted Agenda…along with the usual Cultural Marxism that Feminists so like to buy into! Its time for Men to gather and refuse on a grand scale…what amounts to nothing more than a Feminist Ponzi Scheme! A scheme that transfers all the Wealth from Hardworking Men and transfers it to Women, Denies them Equitable Access to their Children…leaving them Heart Broken, Homeless and Suicidal. It is also largely responsible for Post Divorce Violence, Suicide and Murder Suicide! The Courts, Judges and Lawyers are the Real Murderers, and not the Alienated Dads. But of course…They will suggest otherwise! Until Men Organize, Stick Together, Mob Together and Oppose on a Grand Scale…this Systemic Abuse by the System will Continue!!! Better yet. Warn younger Men of the obvious dangers of Marriage and Divorce 2.0 and encourage Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) Activism. Refuse to work harder than you have to in order to support yourself leaving a minimalist tax base for them to draw off. Starve the System Legally…and watch how fast things will turn around in the other direction. By 2025…the System will be heading into a Meltdown anyways! Rapid decline of Revenue due to the Retiring and Dying off of the Pre War-Post War Boomers will bring about the certain demise of these Government Run Social Gimmicks…and there will be no more Free Rides!!! Have a Great Day!

  7. Hans Mills is a hero. And Law Diva is a monster, destroyer of families.

    Marriage is done in the West, read the manosphere or Dalrock’s blog to learn how and why “never married” rates are skyrocketing for women.

    1. TO MIKE:

      I would not make a bald statment that “LawDiva is a destroyer of families” without at least doing a Canlii.org search on her name, and see what she accomplished in courts.

      Your comment may be unfair to the LawDiva or unfounded.

      Your other point, that women are having a hard time getting a man, is true, according to female friends in BC.

      1. From what I saw in Canlii, this is my guesstimate: Ms. Lang does not go “to court” often, and when she does, the issue is complex or novel or worthwhile. If I needed legal advise/help, I would go to her. Kudus, Ms. Lang.

      2. Appreciate your interest in this topic. I actually have been in court on hundreds of cases over the last 26 years. Check out the heading “My Cases” on my blog… or Cases on my website georgialeelang.com. I have defended scores of fathers/husbands and taken a lead role in advancing the concept of shared parenting. You can see my cases on the BC Superior Courts website, both in the Court of Appeal and in the trial court BCSC. You need to google GA Lang, G. Lang, Georgialee Lang, to find them all. Cheers! Georgialee

    2. Men should just refuse to Marry or Shack Up…They are both the same now anyways! The Golden Vagina Worship needs to stop also!

  8. Young men, read the comments above carefully, and note the one-sided facts presented by this blogger, and the obvious anti-male sentiment… women
    outnumber men in universities, are more readily employable, are treated with favorable bias by the courts, are ineligible for the draft, live 7 years longer, always receive custody of children, and now (in the U.S.) get healthcare subsidized by men… while boys are now basically placed on Ritalin at birth in order to comply with a zero-wiggling tolerance school system employing 90% female teachers…. NEVER, EVER MARRY. My suggestion is to move overseas before they make that illegal too. Notice how the wife in this story tried to seize Mr. Mill’s passports. In another few years they’ll just place them in the custody of a family law judge on your wedding night!

    It’s also sad that the mother has obviously poisoned the minds of her children to hate their father. It’s also obvious that he’s NOT earning a six-figure salary now. Mr. Mills, if you are reading this comment – one day your boys (at least) will understand. Try to keep contact and support them creatively (i.e., without letting your wife get her fingers on your $$) as you can. Send them stuff via Ebay (used – she can’t easily sell).

    NOTE: This woman still has an equity value in her house worth half a million bucks, plus a guaranteed fixed income… plus rental income!!! I have nil sympathy for her economically.

    1. Well said… I have been going through a divorce custody battle for over a year now. I am the plaintiff which means I am the one who filed for divorce due to my wife’s sickness of alcoholism, hit and run accidents, abandonment of the family missing for days at a time, drinking and passing out in her car for up to 12 hours at a time with proof of police reports and pictures taken by security, domestic violence, and educational neglect on our 7 yr old son. Even with all this preponderance of evidence which is the burden of proof the judge gives her joint custody and awards her child support…to even make more sense of things she only gets him on the weekends and I get him Monday through Friday. The reason this has happened is because I had a job and a bank account..the courts, judges and the lawyers do not care about the best interest of the child they only care about the money and they will put your child right back in the intolerable situation you left her for. My ex-wife has no place of her own, she has no foundation, she lives with her sugardaddy customer from the strip club, she has no family members for support because they all live in Panama and we live in Las Vegas, and she cannot do 2 grade homework due to her lack of education where she is from. She gets free lawyer representation from her sugardaddy friend who is a lawyer and they have burried me financially. I have lost my job with the casino’s here in Vegas, I’m about to lose my car and my house. However I will not lose our son. The courts have failed to protect him from harms way and he is being put at Graves risk due to her erratic behavior. I will not allow my son and I to become another statistic I will not put my tail between my legs and I will stand my ground for what is right and fight…I will die for my son. You BASTARDS! !!!! The biggest mistake I ever made was going to file for divorce the second mistake I made was having a job and a bank account.. if you have a pair of balls and you file for divorce you will lose…

  9. wow…This is insanity..I am a woman going through a divorce and I could never put my ex through this..how is this allowed to happen? What can I do to help? form a group? I want to help get these absorb laws changed..my new boyfriend just got told he has to pay his ex 3300.00 a month..now he has to sell everything and he will still be living below the poverty line. Where is the justice in this?

    1. I agree, I am a mother and I pay two bogus support orders. Making 14.42/hr. $30,000/yr. Paying out 440.00 and 580.00 totaling 1,020/mo. being left with 1,287.00/mo. How do I live off of this without stressing and becoming ill? Now, with having to venture out to hopefully find a second job…I will be able to see my babies. I had to move from NJ to FL to be able to live. With living with fibromyalgia and not trying to be so stressed is a challenge. I am currently unemployed actively looking for work and my license is suspended due to failure to pay Nov and Dec. I can’t get to my imterviews to get a job. While I am unemployed, I still have arrears adding up.
      I was feeling this way:Judical system needs a face lift. Their laws and processes aren’t for the people. Everything that is done…the state is getting paid!!!!!
      So many cases are heard, but not listened to.
      $$$$$ rules.. truth drools!! Common sense is no longer used.
      This is heavy on me.. if they’re people out their that have been screwed or is still being screwed by the Non-Justice system… let our voices be heard! Let’s start a petition to over turn laws that existed since the 70’s. Our country is changing, so shall our laws and processes.
      If you or someone you know has been wronged by such, let’s start to change it!
      This is a democratic country right?!!!
      “One has not only legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, 1 has a moral responsibilty to disobey unjust laws” Martin Luther King Jr.

      1. “How do I live off of this without stressing and becoming ill?”

        Do what men are told. Stop Whining©, Woman Up© and Deal with It©.

    2. It is great that we read 1-2 replies from compassionate ethical women, that helps us restore faith in Humanity. I think we should spread the word more often, and women should speak out against the alimony stuff. I support women empowerment. And this spousal support is just making women into useless leeches instead of getting on their own feet.

    3. Continue to do what you always have. Be Fair and Be Reasonable and do not let your Feelz go past your Sensibilities!

    4. thats were they want you. behind on payments. so a. they can take away your passport. b. put you in jail for contempt and get funding for jails.

  10. This is exactly my case, I just left the country to avoid paying my cheating ex-wife an amount of $4700 / month, where I was making around 6K.
    After I found that my ex had been cheating on me for years, I filed for a divorce and unfortunately was ordered by court to pay my ex an amount of $1200 for child support, and an amount of 3400 for alimony, and all of my ex attorney fees.
    I did not mind paying the child support..

    But the alimony? really Mr. Judge !! what did you want me to pay it for? A reward for her cheating ?

    Thank you No-Fault divorce law. Thank you for never considering cheating as a divorce fault, thank you for such corrupt law, you ruined my life, and my child’s life..
    I had no option but to keep some dignity and break the law by transferring all of my money, quitting my job and running away ..

    Now that I left the country, I’ll never be coming back, will get married again, will keep waiting for the day till I meet with my child , and will save every penny for the child support till that day ..

    1. I advocate for tearing up our Charter of Rights and Freedoms Act. In my opinion it is so misused. How many lawyers will drag out their client’s case over years, and then ask the court to dismiss the case because it has taken too long to get to trial? This is not the case for all lawyers, so ethical lawyers relax. If lawyers were no longer able to cite the Charter in order to get a case tossed out, then we will have less time needed for trials. The Law Courts will no longer be stretched to the max, and Canadians may save millions and then some.

      I suggest tearing up the Charter because innocent capable citizens who are not a risk to themselves or others in BC have no chance to defend themselves without being afforded the same rights as criminals when detained/arrested under BC’s Mental Health Act Section 28(1). When citizens are denied their Charter Rights and call to family before being drugged and committed, we all need to take another hard look at the Charter and how it’s being used or abused!

    2. I’m sorry to hear that you were driven to this. I may have to do the same or wind up in jail as a dead beat dad. And I love how we are legally bound not to tell the children the truth about what’s going on.

      1. Dear Skrood; you have my sympathy and I share your pain. Unfortunately, the broken feminist system has hired old trailer trashes who have been abused or misused as social workers. These misguided people are leading and providing advise to our children!!! I wonder who and how these people get qualified and what’s the over-site process for controlling these people. My Ex showed up in court with of these goons, checking me out and providing her with advise!!! I left the country and broke the slavery chain. It’s time for the court system to wake up and smell the roses as more and more men are standing up to the corrupt judges and attorneys. It’s time to post the name of these judges who have become a hindrance in the justice system instead of public servant. It’s time for them to understand it’s the same people who put them there in the first place they are wrongfully and prejudicially. The judge who had a tendency to make a lot of mistake in my case, after giving almost all my assets to the ex and giving full custody of my children with “limited visitation” what ever the @#$# that means, would not even agree to have a hearing on support modification!!!! Tell me that’s not prejudice and unfair. If I learned one thing through 6 years of my divorce ordeal, is that, the family court is run by feminist and men have no rights. Lets get together and start a coalition to fix the system, judges, attorneys, and greedy women who fall in their trap. God bless.

    3. Keep all court records and notes to show your child one day. The child will understand what happened without you saying a word

    4. TO M1: Why do you say you “broke the law”?

      If you have no job, you can’t pay, that’s all. Nobody, even a judge, can get blood from a rock.

      1. You’re Right…they can’t get Blood from a Stone! Now they’ll just toss him in and out of jail repetitiously instead. Pretty Fair Huh? If she couldn’t afford to support a Child…She gets Welfare, Government Housing, Legal Advice and Monetary Assistance and Council. But not a Dad down on his luck for work…he just gets Restraining Order’s, False Charges and gets Caged. What a Free Society We Are? Poppycock! My Advice to Men? Don’t Marry, Don’t have Kid’s and curb your contact with Women…the RISK just isn’t worth it anymore!

    5. Well I would send the child support. I’m not saying the amount the judge said, but the kids need something. I agree with leaving and hell no to paying alimony.

      1. To: Kerry
        Hey, Watch your mouth moron. If you think you can curse, I can as well and in a way much better than you, but i don’t.
        I still tried all possible ways you can think of to communicate with my child; including proposing sending decent amount of money for child support, but all my trials were rejected.

        The cheating greedy ex is not (and will never be) satisfied and she poisoning the child brain with false facts.
        I do cry tears of blood for my child, but i didn’t and still don’t have any other options available.

        What would you do ? Live on the street and act as ATM slave for the rest of your live?
        I cannot wish nothing more right now but for you to live in this position one day and for you to to face what i have already faced ..

      2. I’ll back you on that one M1. That’s pretty much the exact situation that I find myself in now! I really get a kick out of how all these “Simp Men” who are completely Brainwashed, can jump on here and belittle the good number of Men who have been categorically abused by the System and brought to financial ruin! I laugh at these types when I find out that its happened to them. That is about a dozen times now…and the look of shock and dismay on their faces are a sight to behold. Best Part…these idiot’s think they have any Real Right’s? They quickly find out how that all gets shoved aside in Family Courts and False Domestic Violence Charges. Too many times that I have had to say “I told you so”

  11. DAMN Your Court – I Will NOT PAY Child Support
    Let’s face it… when you get divorced, you, as the father, or the wife or girlfriend of a victim of the family court siytem and evil women, are probably not going to see the children, and if you do, it will be rarely and on the ex’s terms… why fight it? Win by not participating. Damn United States Courts. Liquidize if you have 401K’s and start over somwhere else where you don’t have to suuport your ex, because if it was about child support and the children, they’d a.) split custody with you, and b.) pay their own half while you pay yours, but that isn’t what they want. Document any communications to show youir children that their mothers are evil and that you do love them. With any luck, the mother will die old and alone and they’ll have deserved every bit of it, while you reconcile and spend time that you were deprived of together as a father and child, in another country.
    These days, I work for the government in a country that does not have a child support treaty with the US. I haven’t seen my little girl in more than five years, nor has her mother, because her mother abandoned her in Russia, and the courts still sided with her, using unproven allegations of abuse. That was all it took, and unsubstantiated allegation. My ex still isn’t with my little girl.

    If you’re a man, the worst thing you can do is pay child support, because it only drives feminist lawyers like the author, the courts, the government, and the evil women that do this, incentive to continue. They’ve already taken what is most important, us from our children, and our children from us, and if we pay, we only continue the cycle and show them that they can get away with it for others.
    Many of us men, were the sole breadwinner for years, with wives that refused to work, even if we begged them to, because they knew they would be rewarded for not working, only at the end, to have them try to shame us (as the author attempted to do – “Father of the Year, not”)… I proudly stand in contempt of court. I live in poverty in a country not of my birth, haven’t seen my child in so long, and I’ll not live in their chains. Never settle for anything less than 50 percent custody, and NO support exchanged, because they all make money off of it. Equal rights, equal responsibility, which means, that women, even with abortions, adoptions, birth control pills, which exist for men, but they won’t legalize, legal abandonment programs, and winning custody at a rate of 12 to 1, is already more than equal. They can pay their half of the support. We men don’t get any of the “equalities” afforded to women. I’ll burn in hell before I pay for her and the government.
    Proudly in defiance. Join us on facebook at Damn Your Court, I Will Not Pay Child Support, or on our new page, Coalition to End Child Support. You are NOT their slave, no matter what they tell you.

  12. I’m extrеmely impгessed ѡith your writing abilities. Keep up tҺe еxcellent quality writing, it’s rаre to
    see а great blog like this one these daуs..

  13. Wow. This can’t be real. Do people actually do things like this in real life? I don’t believe this article. I don’t believe a father with (special needs) kids would leave his country to avoid paying child support. This article is not true. No one does that.

    1. Unfortunately, they do….very few, however. I know of at least three who retained me to help them “come home”, a process of negotiating arrears of support and other terms to avoid contempt findings and jail, in some cases.

      1. Ac says:
        February 27, 2015 at 7:10 AM
        Lol….he really had no choice…are you people serious?


        No kidding, I have to shake my head at the fact that this lawyer can’t see logic, this is sad, mgtow s getting bigger and bigger and this is the reason

      2. This is your article and your page. I have not seen one comment from you about anything other than trying to tag this father as a pile of poop.

        Do you have any … ANY INPUT AT ALL … about the situations of men and how they are treated in family courts?

        I mean, I can tell you are a passive feminist just by the article’s frame of reference and point of view. But do you have the decency to say that men are consistently screwed over in domestic civil cases or not? Or are you that Saul Alinsky piece of crap type person who thinks that living their life in self-worship and self delusion at the price of the society as a whole is acceptable? Because that type of person makes me cringe and sharpen my knife. the hypocrisy that you can win either side of a moral debate, but refusal to employ empathy. I f this is the case, I feel sorry for anyone exposed to you or your ilk.

      3. I guess you haven’t looked through the over 800 articles that are posted on this blog. I suggest you go to the Search link on the first page of the blog and look for “shared parenting”. For almost 30 years I have supported and defended men who have been screwed over by the family justice system. I am a proud member of “Leading Women for Shared Parenting” (see their website) and have written extensively on the flaws in Canadian laws on spousal support. I am certainly not a feminist….Vote for Donald Trump!

    2. This Article and completely True! I will only say that you are extremely Naive and Uninformed. This Item that the Author mentions, was in the Hamilton Spectator and Toronto Star. The couple involved lived on a Lakefront Property in Burlington,Ontario. The Man had to flee to the Philippines in order to save whatever was left of his hide! Can’t say I blame him. Wish I could do the same!

    3. Bad New…Yes it does happen! It gets more Common and Worse every year. Men are often forced to Go to Jail, Quit Life-Suicide, Leave the Country or live off the Grid or on the Streets. Don’t be so Naive!

      1. Actually I’m not a lazy woman and I know other women like me who are suffering because of sociopathic thieves who use the system to continue to abuse us. My ex-husband molested two of my children and still demands more money for me while he refuses to help his own children.

  14. After reading full the page, I agree that province laws in Canada are in favor of women. It is ridiculous laws been enforced, that badly effect living standards. sometimes, I have to live in Canada where every thing is expansive, higher taxes, long waiting time in hospitals, over competition in jobs, immigration flooding, over stressed laws, matrimonial homes, divorces complications, lawyers rip off, not higher wages/increments, and several others. Over all, strongly suggest to amend family laws/enforcement laws.

  15. There are obviously lawyers making comments on this page. Why is it that no one commented on the illegality of taking away a Canadian mans passport to prevent him from leaving Canada? Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees us the right to enter Canada and leave Canada. When I divorced I gave away freely the house and furniture. I never even hired a lawyer. When the ex-wife mentioned alimony I said I would leave Canada and go to a country with no treaty with Canada. (I have lived abroad before and this was no idle threat) But first I would hire a lawyer and fight. I suggested she call what she got a win. Fortunately she did. We had no kids so no alimony. I considered myself lucky to just be losing everything. That’s a win. Most of my friends who divorce lose everything they have and everything they ever will have. Our constitutional rights trump this female extortion racket and any good lawyer should defend that. I think that these mercenary Canadian ladies should consider this small fact. Even if they take away a mans passport there is a lot of Canadian wilderness to live in. On principle I would go there rather than be forced to pay anyone. Involuntary servitude is a crime against humanity. It’s a form of slavery. It does not matter that our corrupt system promotes this. The German legal system supported what they did too, but the “good Nazi” defense did not hold up at the Nuremberg trials. There is no statute of limitations on crimes against humanity.
    A man only needs to share his food and his fire with people who choose to live with him.

    1. RE: “Most of my friends who divorce lose everything they have and everything they ever will have”

      That’s probably because they hired a lawyer,

      Look at this case:


      The wife, who is not young, has spent upwards of $1.2M already, and the asset fight has merely moved into commercial courts, because there are corporate marriage assets.

      Her husband, and children, are also in the legal war.

      Bottom line: They will be unhappy for years.

      My suggestion to Ron: Don’t hire a lawyer, don’t go to court, if you can. You cannot have a war unless the soldiers attend it.


    2. Which is pretty much what I intend to do…Go really deep into the Bush. I have already been Homeless and living under a Makeshift Lean-to Shelter all through the last Winter…no thanks to FRO suspending my Trucking License before I could get my Case back into Court. They did not even follow their own Rules…like a 30 Day Pre-Warning before Suspension. I am drowning in Debt because of her thievery, Wrongfully Convicted and had my Home Stolen out from under me…while she had me thrown in the slammer on a False Breach Charge. Then had her scuzzy Lawyer push through Conditions in a Default Settlement. She will not get a Nickle until she goes back and recants all the BS that she had me Convicted with…All of it! That includes the BS Plea Bargains I was forced to accept under duress! I want Fair and Equitable Access to my Children. I am not paying for an Older Daughter who has been refusing to go to School since she was 15. I also want my Hunting Privilege back, and that BS Criminal Record EXPUNGED! Until that happens…NOTHING! Do not even care if they throw me in Jail for 180 Days,Weeks or Months. She wanted to be dishonest and dirty instead of fair and reasonable…this is what she deserves. NOTHING!

  16. Our feminist dictatoship hurts women by ruining men, because all women depend on exploitation of men. Everything around us was built and invented by men, women did not put one brick. The only way to increase exploitation of men is to increase productivity of men. But, feminists and collaborators decrease productivity of men. Feminists are anti-men, not pro-women. Feminists would ruin 2 women to ruin 1 man. TS

  17. I left the U.S. more than five years ago and have secured second citizenship. I will never go back to the U.S. I will never see my children again. I had a standard boilerplate divorce with false charges, threats of jail, ruinous support demands, and the loss of everything I worked for stretching back 15 years. I said “no” and left. Now she’s on welfare and every other public thing only women ever qualify for and of course that’s on my tab as well. Funny thing about unpayable debts though, they don’t get paid. I have a new life, new job, new possibilities and I am happy abroad. I miss my children terribly but I wouldn’t have seen them from jail either and debtors prison is allowable for ‘dead beats’ like myself. Don’t believe anyone who tells you that child support is some moral debt you must pay. It is nothing more than a ransom you are forced to pay at gunpoint to someone who forbids you from seeing your own children. It is no different than kidnapping with state enforced payments.

    I’m sure my ex now enjoys her “independence” working, starving, scraping by because she tried to enslave someone and the damn slave quit. How morally awful. That slave should be punished. I did 4 years of worry, knowing full well that massa would never forgive an uppity slave who left the plantation without his permission. How dare you not meet cotton quota slave! In what other realm is someone sticking a gun in your face and demanding money declared “moral” oh but we call it child support so *you* are actually the evil one if you can’t meet our demands (and believe me those demands will be very VERY heavy). The west is dying and good riddance. You have labeled good for evil and viciously and mercilessly enforced it. You want me to take care of my children then give them to me – I will love them, support them, feed them, clothe them, and help them as I can but I will not pretend or tolerate your demanding money under penalty of prison and labor camps is the same as love.

    1. Who is hurt? The group of victims include father, kids, grandparents, extended family and society. No matter how big is this group, it will always include men and women 50-50. This means that our feminist dictatorship hurts men and women equally. Feminists help destructive woman destroy our society and herself at the end. The misconception that women profit from feminism attracts women and fuels our dictatorship. TS

      1. Well said, it’s all a TRAP created by greedy attorneys who add more fuel to fire to create animosity between the poor couples who trust them with their life and all their assets. It’s their bread and butter, you think the court or the attorneys care, who gets hurt!!! The more the merrier. Have you been in your attorney’s office lately, my attorney’s office was a posh corner office in high rent downtown high rise. Ever wonder where they get the money to pay for that? It’s your money! What is the first thing an attorney have you do when you enter their office? To fill out an information sheet, this is to evaluate your (couple’s) financial situation, another word how much money they can make off of you!!! These are the wolves in sheep clothing. The only thing they are interested in is how to prolong the process, increase their billable hours and to fill their own pockets. Yes meanwhile the families are thorn apart while the shameless attorneys are laughing their way to the bank. Of course there are some good attorneys which I have not had a pleasure to meet yet, If there is one who is reading these postings, please stand up and introduce yourselves, because I know a lot of poor divorced fathers who are looking for an honest attorney who has their interest in mind and love to meet a good attorney.
        Attorneys are businessmen or women who work with judges, their boss, on daily basis, their first priority is not to offend or point out the judges mistake at any cost. You’ll rarely find an attorney who will voice your (men’s) interest in front of a judge. If the judge doesn’t like your attorney, you are SOL. Judges usually set up what’s called a conciliation meetings, these meetings are set up to rehearse what the judge will accept to be the outcome of the case shall be. If you really like to know how much weight your attorney will carry ask him to participate in a conciliation meeting, it is your legal right to be present in your own conciliation meetings. The first time you get a hint that a judge is not in tune with you, or your attorney you may want to stop the proceeding and save yourself tons of money in litigation expenses. My best advise for men: do not get involved in this rat race at all and if you do, do not hire an attorney It’s a waste of your hard earned money, first of all. Secondly, nothing frustrates your wife’s attorney more to deal with you directly. This is the worst pain you can inflict on her. There are tons of good books and resources to help you how to deal with your ex’s to be attorney and her.

  18. First off, I have no sympathy for the dog known as Donna Mills. After taxes, unless the man is making 250 k minimum a year, no one can pay 48000 a year, which will only increase because of our shitty
    Law systems. I hate the judges and attorneys involved since they only make the problem worse by getting a cut in every divorce. Since the law obviously favors one side, I’d run too. In fact, if I can’t I’d rather join a corrupt military or become a terrorist than pay for slavery. The only real winners in a divorce are the lawyer, attorneys, feminist groups, and shithead judges. So unless she is missing two hands or legs, get a job. For those hard working women who are dealing with genuinely bad dads, I have no problem wih tier pursuits. For those who want to use support as a meal ticket f you. And for all those who sympathize with this broken system:رایت در جهنم از همه شما!

  19. P.S I am aware of my misspelling of their. Also, let me make this clear Hans Mills is no saint, but its hard to argue why that additional 1500 drove him away after his ex got more than a fair share, including court costs. On a side note, I hope the court does away with the double standards for once and throws the book at Laura Coward. Family laws needs to be restructured to protect children rather than fulfill one’s revenge.

  20. Hello all.
    I make 8.5K per month. she makes 9.5k per month. We have 2 kids. She wants me out of the picture completely and would love if I disappeared completely. My parents have not been allowed to see their Grandchildren ( grandpa is quite ill overseas) because she cannot bear the thought of them playing with them, speaking in a different ethnic language- not to mention holding them.

    She had attacked me several times while I held one of the babies. She wouldn’t let me feed them, kiss them buy before leaving for work- and would not allow them to be bottle fed by me. She would repeatedly accuse me of harassment and that she would call the cops on me for that same reason.

    She took me to court not wanting to negotiate anything. I am now paying75% of my monthly salary as childsupport and have just enough to pay the rent. She has an extra 6000$ left over and is going on spending sprees- looking better than ever. She has a babysitter taking care of the kids from morning till nightfall and does not give much of a shit about them

    The good part in all this is I can see my extended family again and not fear tension around me. It is peaceful and quiet and I can see my children and be the good dad I am. We have a great time together but she tends to be jealous when she sees me involved with them…

    How can I live a life of an indentured financial servant and at the same time fear being alienated from the children. Can I allow for my children to pity me when they grow up ( think that is the best possible scenario if she does not alienate them from me)

    The American Dream was in the palm of my hand and then it slipped away like a jellyfish in the vast blue seas…

    1. I want you put your story on one page, with family pics on top, and distribute in public places. Dont mention our feminist dictatorship, just your personal experience. And if you can inspire someone to fight, meet or organize – even better.

  21. Why have a blog if you’re not going to reply to any posts that calls you out, people in the posts make valid points that after you accommodate tax and support the ex husband would have had pennies to live on.

    To me the logical conclusion had I been the judge is that she should sell her house and move into a cheap house rather than squeezing more money out of her ex. If anything the fact that her kids are sick and require additional care implies that the state should step in and support her using the tax money her husband pays into the system.

    1. Perhaps a bit of background would assist you. I have advocated for men’s rights in family court for 26 years, often a lone voice amongst my legal colleagues. I have been unafraid to challenge the family law justice system which I say is biased against men. I have spoken and written prolifically on topics including a denunciation of the evils of parental alienation and child abduction, where fathers are typically the victims, and I have been vocal in my support of a presumption of shared parenting. I sympathize with Mr. Mill’s plight in so far as he in good faith negotiated a fair deal that gave his wife the family home in exchange for her waiver of spousal support.

      What I cannot condone, however, is his refusal to pay child support. He brought these children into the world and it is unconscionable that he refuses to support them, all because his wife was awarded spousal support. His decision to leave Canada permanently is his choice, but his failure to send funds to support his children is legally and morally wrong.

      The notion that we as taxpayers should fulfill his financial obligations is unseemly. Since Mr. Mills no longer pays tax in Canada, he is contributing nothing.

      This article written almost 2 years ago continues to bring out strong emotions and everyone is entitled to their opinion, as am I. Thank you for adding your opinion to this dialogue.

      1. Well, did he have a choice? Was it optional for him just to pay for child support and not the spousal support? Court orders were called to squeeze his life to the extreme limit. He would most probably face jail time even if he committed to pay for his kids. There wasn’t any option for him but just to leave, and hope to reconcile with the children overseas.

        That’s what I exactly did in my divorce as I mentioned earlier, and I will never pay a single penny till I make sure it goes directly to my child.

      2. If you want him to take care of his children – give them to him. Do NOT claim moral superiority when you have the state stick a gun in his face and demand money which you spend. There is no way this is moral I don’t care how you name it. Caring for a child isn’t writing a check its making a bed, helping with the homework, getting them clothes, feeding them, housing them. You and women like you simply want a free ride an excuse to steal from someone and stick a gun in someones face to feather your own nest.

      3. @Georgialee Lang. Seriously? You think, after his wife practically forced him out of the country, half way around the world, where he cannot see his kids on a regular basis, he should STILL pay something? If you are not allowed to BE a dad, you cannot be expected to PAY for it either. I am sure this is a horrible situation for him, but the wife, lawyers and/or courts forced his hand. It is incredible that you can support a verdict that is clearly completely unfair.

      4. I sympathise with him but I agree with you that he should pay the child maintenance. As I see it the whole process is about the money, the children have been forgotten. If the kids were really being considered then the first order of business would be to ensure equal custody with each parent having some basic rights to a home for the kids. But I don’t see that, what I see is a system where one parent uses the kids as a means of extorting money from the other. What’s wrong with everybody when they think this is the best way to benifit the kids. Kids don’t give a dam about money, adults do. The woman who needs a huge house and car and spending money is not thinking about the kids, she is thinking about herself. It is a given that the kids come first but when did they become a comodity to be used to secure personal gain from. I miss my kids every single day but I still pay for the things they need but while I am prevented from having them on equal terms to my ex she is getting nothing from me. She took too much when she took my kids. I’m going to take her to court to settle things and I may be faced with the same choices he was but I have spoken to my heavely pregnant wife and she agrees that I have to stand up and say NO even if it means gaol time. Like him I am not going to spend the rest of my life supporting someone that views me as their personal ATM. So how many years will I get do you think?

      5. Care to tell us what rock you’re able to squeeze blood from?

        The guy has been squeezed dry yet you keep going on about child support…smh.

      6. At what point did we start as being “Morally Wrong” when our lives are being destroyed by a “Legally Flawed” Family Court and Justice System? Who decides what this morality is??? Sorry…but after a Man has lost his home, his children and had his career destroyed by the incompetence and unethical and immoral Family Law System what alternative does he have? Simple…He has none! So you go on to suggest that somehow they are Unlawful and Immoral because they can no longer pay support, or are forced to flee in order to have some standard of living? Why would anyone want to support a slanted and Morally Unethical Legal System? As far as I’m concerned, all Men should just completely reject it, go MGTOW and avoid any meaningful (?) relationships with the opposite sex…PERIOD! This nonsense would end in a bloody big hurry! I don’t think any guy should be forced to pay Alimony or Support when they are removed from their children’s lives so maliciously and have had their lives destroyed by Legal Bungling and an incompetent and underhanded attorney! Men should just opt out of society altogether…then see how long you last?!!!

  22. @Georgialee Lang, and you’re 100% positive the he never tried that already (sending money for the child support only)? Moreover, do you think the system would take into consideration the change of his income amount, and thus adjust the assigned child support?

    Either way, the story cannot get really exciting if you mentioned that, right? Someone has to be pure evil and it is Mr. Hans in your case.

    The reason i’m feeling this guy is simply because his story is my exactly my case WORD to WORD, but with one small difference. That I filed for divorce because I found ex cheating on me for years.

    The biggest crime I’ve ever committed and greatest guilt; that I proudly carry, is choosing to live with some dignity than living with a CHEATING betraying greedy lazy wife planning on stealing all of my money (all was documented) since day one. I filed to court all evidence, proves and documents you can think of, but who cares about us or our feelings, we’re living in a modern society, correct? where everything has be split regardless of who’s fault the divorce is.

    I was raised & taught on the principle that cheaters and betrayals can never get awarded. I was pushed to leave the country as I was not able to live on the streets just to award her for cheating on me.

    Probably what I’m saying does not make any sense in the law eyes, but I was, have been & still shouting for humanity justice.

    After I left the country, I tried every possible way to communicate with my child, I sincerely offered sending money to my ex bank account (for child support only) in exchange to be able only to communicate with my kid. Yet, she refused any way of communications. She refused even letting me see a single picture of him.
    “All the money or you’ll never see your kid, not even a single photo of him ever again”, last message I got when we communicated after my leave.

    I do miss my kid big time, pray everyday that i could reconcile with him, and can do nothing else now but to wait for him to get old enough, and keep searching the social media on his name hoping he could create a profile one day.

    1. Same Boat here…But the Free Ride is now over. I am no longer negotiating anything…until all of my Conditions are met! I dont even care if they Kill Me. Thank God MGTOW is increasing at a rapid rate in Canada. Watch the countries Birthrate decline, and watch the Professional Single Mommy Agenda go right through the Floor Boards! The ultimate end to Emotional, Physical and Financial Extortion by this Man Hating System! In 10 Years…Collapse! Quick Ladies, invest in your Box of Kittens now…you will need them!!!

  23. The author woman who wrote this article is “morally bankrupt”! Hand Mills, you are 100% right, and you are a victim.. you did *precisely* the right thing by leaving.. The best possible thing, when your next best option is suicide because this woman and a corrupt court decided your life meant nothing at all, and that your children didn’t need a father. Women just want to take, take, take, without limits nor shame. When the court allows that, the court is committing grand theft — a felony. Call it whatever else you want to call it and it is still a crime, and people think it is somehow okay only because a judge is committing the crime along with the woman in the divorce case?? COME ON! They are common criminals, and should be tried in a criminal court, and because they are criminals the children should be taken away from their mother. But of course that won’t happen because the court is corrupt, unaccountable to the People, and discriminates against men. Oh, and I’d be surprised if you allow my comment to be posted and stay posted.. why? Because you’re another woman, and you don’t want the truth to be printed!

  24. m1 you are my hero, even though I am married I know some friends who were nearly homeless because of unfavorable settlements as a result of a one-sided ruling from their judges due to their cheating exes. They had to live with their parents for at least a decade AND not see their children because of the corrupt court laws in North America. Some of those kids later rebelled and cut all ties with their biological mother, but a few were not so fortunate. And no, I am not blaming all women, rather I am blaming the cheating ones who just HAD to kindly put it: maximize their reproductive success by cheating and/or treating everyone they bunk with as an ATM machine while neglecting their own children unless they become a success story.Of course, family law is inexact science, but when you hear stories of a boy who was raped under 15 and paying child support in North America, you know society has become hijacked by feminazis their fascist lawyer buddies,judges and other power abusers(the real criminals). I bet our government spent more money in the last few decades chasing deadbeat dads(domestic and foreign), than stopping pedophiles and murderers( 21 years and he’s out and re-offending again, sound familiar?). Anyways, I’ve recently told one of my friends who had a bitter divorce to be ready to cash out everything and maybe even burn his citizenship once he gets his new one in another country (unless the court changes their mind,which I highly doubt). Even now, that friend’s son is starting to realize what a horrible mother he has and has even went as far to ask to be taken in by one of his school teachers(after school) since his mom’s new boyfriend beats him everyday after school because he hates the fact he is a musician(he plays in the school and cadet band), gets good grades in his other courses(except P.E) and isn’t a star athlete that he wants him to be. I hope one day the idiot judge who let that dog abuse her own child she loses custody and someone who will actually appreciate his talents and effort takes him in soon as their child.

    1. Anyways, enough bad news and badmouthing. I just learned today that my friend’s child is no longer in his mother’s custody anymore. The music teacher at the school took it upon himself to take the child into his own custody since the child’s own father is on long term disability(from an injury at work, he’s in a wheelchair and requires assistance). The judge initially sided with the mother and her crooked team of lawyers(paid for by the boyfriend), but after hearing testimonials from the staff at the school, classmates and the especially the teacher himself, the judge quickly relented and rewarded custody to the music teacher. Now the child will no longer have to worry about being beaten up after school anymore and can even act as a mentor for the teacher’s young kids after school. I later learned that this same biased judge who rewarded the mother custody in the first place has a nephew who once hired this teacher for private music lessons and one day he told his uncle how much he loved everything he learned from this man, and even highly recommended him to his cousins and friends. I guess the judge knew how much it would upset his nephew and children if they were to find out that he made a one sided ruling against one of their favorite role models. The dad will continue paying child support, but now with more reasonable terms(he has a great relationship with the teacher and family), and can now rest easy now knowing it won’t be spent on superficial luxuries or things that aren’t needed(the mom’s current boyfriend once bought a punching bag and boxing gloves for her son as an “apology” to the child after beating him the night before,to make himself look like he cared). The son is now in the process of filing a restraining order against his mom and current boyfriend plus any subsequent boyfriends/husbands, and will remain in effect until he reaches age 19(unless he says otherwise). I’m glad there’s happy ending to this child custody battle story. But not all child custody battles end like this. Bless the teacher and the rest of his family for doing something like this and giving the dad another reason to stay within the country and reconnect with his son again. Now I’m off to deal with another friend’s dad who seems to have an axe to grind with his son since the day he was born, while his mother is the one that actually cares.

      1. Very glad for your friend and his son. Not matter what, in one way or another, and sooner or later, Justice has to prevail.

  25. What is best country in the world to move avoiding child support in the US? It seems they have ties everywhere and the places they don’t aren’t places id want to live.

  26. I guess I recently joined the ranks of the dead beat dads ,I have been paying for my three kids as I should since their mother posted her private parts on line during internet affairs.We properly divorced and she took everything but the light bulbs (let’s be accurate I had a cup a knife a fork and a bent spoon I got the house with no equity and fridge plus stove )Not a curtain or blanket or toilet paper remained. I made extra payments so she wouldn’t loose her vehicle ,I had to take her to mediation to get her to do braces on our middle child .As he had a clef pallet and wasn’t speaking well because of his teeth.I remarried to a wonderful gal and we continue to pay support ,my wife lost her mom and dad a few years ago ,and I lost my mom last year right after mom passed my job was cut as a cut back ,I’m 47 been working oil patch since 18 numerous injuries including a fractured neck and 3 damaged discs in my back .since my Mom passed and the job stress (including being a foreman fielding calls during my Moms funeral service )I asked for temp decrease in hi stress decision making (that got me laid off) the stress seams to amplify the arthritis pain and fatigue plus insomnia .My doctor has been great helping me getting on a sleep apnea machine and dealing with fatigue while I’m on ui still looking for work .I keep getting told I’m over qualified plus getting up there in years for oil field work .so we recently filed an ISO form to reduce my payments ,DO NOT EVER! Use this system .The judge treated the case like I didn’t bother to show up the x had a lawyer she works for show up and now I have more to pay plus all the education and child support for our son who has been out of school for a year ,the judge said well he intentionally lowered his income but this will fix that .So now I get the package in mail saying I have to comply as of October 1 we received it Nov 20 ? I’m already defaulted not like I have the extra money anyhow,so now I still pay but am looking at jail time ,or ……. As I can’t pay there is no more money all rsps gone One toy left to sell …..I HAVE ALWAYS TRiED TO BE AN EXAMPLE OF WORK HARD DONT GIVE UP for my kids even though I haven’t seen or spoken to them since 2011when they were last here to visit and were disgusted to learn we had not been able to get permanent power to our house from the last time our support payments were raised
    As we couldn’t afford the expense .So now I still pay but not enough to clear my name and will have to live with a criminal record no license and does anyone know if they serve macncheese in jail as the last 4 years I have become rather used to it .

    1. James Let me tell you what I see all the time:

      1. Good father who has always paid support becomes unemployed;
      2. Judge automatically believes the lack of employment is a strategy to stop paying support;
      3. Father is ill and cannot work or can only work a limited amount, but judge believes father is a malingerer.
      4. The only way a father can prove to a judge that his lack of employment or illness is legitimate is to have an affidavit from your employer explaining why father no longer has a job. If illness is the cause, you must have an affidavit from your doctor(s) setting out the diagnosis treatment plan, expected recovery date. Anything less will not be enough;
      5. Simply swearing under oath the reasons for unemployment or illness will not suffice. Judge will not believe you.
      6. Fathers who have sufficient funds to hire a lawyer (count on about $10,000 or more) will usually get some relief, but not always.
      7. ISO is a lost cause for fathers in your situation.
      8. You have my utmost sympathy. Our system sucks!

      1. I don’t feel there is any support for dads in this system ,I can easily get doctors note but the judge and lawyer already have me in a situation of arrears ,and set it up to get financially more difficult in Jan I sold my motorcycle that used to be my de stress for half what it was worth back when we were still paying required amount.the money’s gone .she wins I have nothing and can’t have anything if I could run I would but I have no were to go ,my daughter was telling my whole family and neighbours about how her mom buys her pot so it’s not laced ,I looked into what I could do was told nothing would come of it but I could proceed if I felt compelled .My x gas been a receptionist or legal secretary for every firm in my home town in BC and now has backing (that’s constantly rubbed in my face)I’m Edmonton .

      2. @Georgialee Lang what are the chances ill be told to pay alimony ?: married for 3 years with a son of 3 yrs old, wife (31 yrs old) stayed home for a year and there after we did all to help her career while I took care of my son most of the time (take him to and from daycare, stayed with him while she is away etc) while she works (but never declared it in tax, she says she is unemployed, though I have copies of her paychecks and proofs that we have been working on her career ). in the first 2 years pay difference was on our taxes was $50,000, in the last year the difference became 90,000 (based on that she still declares she is unemployed). no properties involved. during the 3rd year I gave her in full about $20,000 to do her business before the marriage came to end. what are the chances ill be told to pay alimony considering this our judicial system ? Thanks

      3. Thanks Georgialee Lang. I like your reasonable approach. I’m a man and became separated end of 2006 when my wife left after I tried to take her to hospital for examination (suspicion of psychosis) as advised by my doctor. After she left home, the court ordered joint custody and child support (money from me for 3 kids) during 2008 which I started paying even before the order. Although my ex. asked for divorce, she was not accepting to sign the divorce documents. I was working but could not afford paying the expensive lawyer fees after the deduction of child support. I was not sure what to do. I was also suffering from depression but became worse and I was hospitalized and treated with electric shocks. After spending almost one year trying to reconcile with her for the kids sake, I met someone. However, since the divorce was not complete, I could not get married again in Canada. Therefore, I left Canada and now living abroad. I am still sending child support to her’s or the kids’ bank accounts but she is not acknowledging receipt of all payments. I am now fifty years old. I am married and have a 4 years old child. I pay for an expensive airfare and endure a long and tiring trip to visit my kids in Canada on annual basis. I am not sure what options I have. I hope I can go back to Canada to be near my kids and to introduce them to their sister.

  27. Instead of everyone complaining, I’d like to hear success stories, what countries are possible escape countries to get ourselves out of this mess? What is the process, I believe you need a VISA? and I don’t want to goto a country that does participate with the Americans and not be a 100 % are we referring to the reciprocating list??

  28. I have been shaken up by the ordeal of the relationship I have gone through. We met via a matrimonial site. She was divorced earlier and this was my first marriage. Initially I was reluctant but soon I was attracted to her and we got to know each other. Parents talked. I was living outside US and was decently employed. She visited my country and I went and saw her at her parents house. Her father was an ex diplomat of my country and I was surprised when he booked a room for the both of us to spend time.

    Soon we got married. My father gave us jewellery worth more than $ 50,000. I learnt just before marriage that she was fired from her job because she left to get married and did not have enough days for leaves. Initially things were good. I took her to Seychelles, Italy, Switzerland, France and many other places. She was to come back to US after a family function at my side. After few months she came back and we stayed together for few months before my immigration to US got finalized and we came here. Immediately after coming here I got a job. She started a joint account depositing $ 25 and then all my salary would come in the joint account which she would use to shop and my salary will pay all household bills and often her expensive shopping via her credit card. She was a little crazy, for simple small things she used to get upset and would not talk for days. After coming to US she started behaving more strangely. She would drive to a far off mall and would leave me there and drive back and leave me shivering in the cold. She would abuse me financially and emotionally. I would be the one to clean all utensils and do all household chores while she would not even do simple things when I would ask her. Often she would demand lot of money from me telling me that she has done my immigration so I should pay her money. The jewellery that we gave her she kept in her mother’s locker and whatever gifts we had from the marriage she transported those to her parents place. She also took away some jewellery that her parents had given me.

    She became pregnant and wanted to go back to her parents place to bear the baby so I made all arrangements to drop her to my country where her parents lived. I came back to US alone because I was still working and was paying the rent for her apartment and all household bills etc. She would call me in the middle of the night and abuse me for slightest of things and would keep a check on me for smallest of expenses. For example buying a sweater.

    In Jan this year our daughter was born and I went back to my country along with 2 bags full of gifts to see the mother and the child. I also gave her more than $ 5000. I was thrashed at her parents house. She told me that I should just leave. Her father told me that I have seen his good face and now he will show me his bad face. I was surprised and confused. Her father apparently had some business loss and was demanding money from me all this while. I asked my father to transfer more than $ 7000 to her mother’s account. I was there for a month and then came back saddened. She had purposefully booked my return ticket on my birthday and when I landed I saw that she had withdrawn $ 7000 from our joint account and transferred the money to her account.

    I was depressed by the way this family had treated me and still tried my best to work things. I would call her and tell her to come back. I had married her for a life time but from their side it was all about money and extortion. Her father had behaved like her pimp.

    In July, I had a near fatal car accident and I was in the hospital for five days. After this I begged her to come back and help me but instead she demanded me that I should pay her $ 10,000 for the car damages. I had lost my job because I could not go to work for few days. I told her I cannot give her now and that she should give me some time for which she abused me and told me that my mother passed away ten years ago because God had punished me and that God is punishing me now too. I was so heart broken. My father came to help me after this accident. Some months passed and I found another job. In September, without my knowledge she came with her parents and stayed somewhere else and in October she did the most vindictive thing possible. We were given orders of protection and I was to vacate the apartment in 10 minutes. I was left homeless and my old father who came to help me was insulted. I went to a motel and in the next court date we were handed over child custody and child support papers.

    This woman and her family are extorting money from me in the name of child support now. I was still recovering after the shock of that accident and now I am going through so many court cases. She has abused the law that favors women to her advantage in multiple ways. Her parents are well to do and they are supporting her in all her misdeeds to extort money from me. In her previous divorce also, I got to know that she made lot of money via alimony and property settlement.

    Now she will misuse the child support money against me further and I would not be able to bear this situation. Already I am suffering from the multiple atrocities done by her pimp father on me. I might have to go back to my country because I cannot bear this situation. But in this process I will loose my daughter. She has already stolen her childhood from me. The biggest problem is they have employed tactics to extort money from me and are misusing law to cheat an honest and innocent man.

    1. A survey is underway on 2015 Gender-Bias Survey of the Family Court Decisions in the Province of British Columbia, Canada Is Gender Bias Real? – will show numbers and charts, comparing three court levels.

      The Equal Parenting group’s website has numerous stories, articles, and links about gender bias, and even allegations that women can “lie to the court with impunity”:

      FatherMagazine (.com) alleges that the “pendelum has swung the other way”, and the gender bias now heavily discriminates against men.

  29. A couple of things that various commentors have posted, but are still very relevant points:

    The average house price in 2014 in Ontario is under $400k, back in 2008 she lived in a house worth $1.2 million, with equity worth $600k and you’re choosing to focus on the mortgage aspect? This woman could sell the $1.2 million, move into a house worth more than the average mortgage free and a big chunk of her expenses disappear.

    They had a previous arrangement in place that she chose to re neg on , yet the biased court didn’t re-balance the original settlement and then back-charge alimony, only back-charge the alimony.

    The guy was earning $100k a year which, is only $73,560 after tax. The judge ordered him to pay his ex-wife $45,264 per year leaving him just $2,358 per month on which to live for himself, including rent/mortgage, food, electricity, etc. It sounds like a lot, but not for a guy who’ll most likely only be able to afford a 1-bedroom apartment whilst he’s still effectively paying for his ex-wife to live it up in a $1.2 million house. The intent behind alimony was to ensure divorced women were not out on the street, but to suggest the man be required to keep his ex-wife in far more comfort than the man himself could afford is ridiculous.

    We don’t have alimony where I’m from (Australia), but our courts are just as heavily slanted against men and I’ve got three stories to relate:

    1. A ‘fair’ divorce?

    A guy worked hard from the day he left school at 16, saved up every penny and purchased his first house outright at 24 years old. He got married at 28 and had a couple of children. About 25 years later, he and his wife divorced after their adult children had moved out and he had to take out a $200k loan against the house he’d originally purchased in order to hang onto it. So far, no objections as the length of time they’d both lived in the house. He worked really hard to pay that mortgage off quickly and settled back into a normal life by himself in his own house.
    Here’s where it gets interesting: a few years later he meets a woman, they date for a while before she moves in with him. She lives with him for about 2 years before packing up and leaving one day. The next contact he had from her was from her lawyer who was proceed with ‘divorce’ proceedings (they were never married) and she SUCCESSFULLY was awarded half of his house, requiring him to take out a $400k mortgage to ‘pay her out her share’ for a house he’d lived in for over 30 years and she 2 years.
    Just imagine being a 56 years old man, thinking you’re all set for retirement with your house all paid off and a woman can literally change all of that so easily. He can now never retire if he chooses to stay in the house he’s live in most of his life.

    2. Child support / randsom

    Another guy I know found himself paying child support for his daughter and the interesting thing was that it was never enough. The mother kept applying to the courts for more money, but she’s already been allocated the maximum from what this guy earned. The guy was a salary worker with no possible prospect of cash-in-hand jobs or extra money from overtime, so every year like clockwork he’d get his child support payments challenged and increased when his annual pay rise came around.
    The mother took a different approach to getting extra money: extortion. She’d ask for a few hundred dollars more on the side, he’d refuse because she’d just spend it on shoes, cigarettes or clothes, so she’d ‘forget’ that it was his weekend for visitation. He’d put up with that same treatment for a few times before taking her to court, the judge would tell the mother off, but nothing would ever happen.
    He worked out that, given he wasn’t eligible for legal aid, it would cost him about $500 every time he wanted to bring her before the court, so it became easier for him to just give her any amount less than that just to see his child. This money was ON TOP of the court ordered maximum payment he was ordered to pay.

    3. I caught up with some distant relatives and noted that one whole arm of one part of my family had no children running around. None. I asked if they’d just been left at home for the day. They hadn’t. After a little questioning I worked a few things out. The mother (matriarch) of that family had divorced the father of her three sons, taken him for all he was worth before marrying a new guy. This new guy, who received no respect from any of the three boys, received even less respect from the woman herself! She still, to this day, berates and belittles him in social settings.
    When asked if she has any grandchildren she coldly replied “I don’t think any of my sons are considering doing that ever”.
    What I came to realise is that all three of these boys had seen their biological father torn down and taken financially for everything he was worth, had seen their substitute father berated and belittled constantly and each had independently decided that they didn’t want to follow in the footsteps of either life example.
    In the case of the couple of your original post, how many of the older children’s problems are related to the way the mother treated their father?

    Some of the comments make note of how courts can view sudden unemployment as a ploy to avoid paying alimony, but are you aware of the double standard? If there aren’t any jobs going locally for certain profession, then a man in that situation would have to relocate in order to continue to make payments. So, in your eyes it’s a man’s duty to do whatever it takes to provide for his family and see them fed, including moving across the country, yet this woman is ok to just sit in a house with more than enough equity in it to buy a median house outright in the same state with cash left over rather than sell it, clear the mortgage and, with it, reduce her expenses that appear to be the underlying issue.
    Had that man stuck around, then by the time he could ‘retire’ he’d effectively have paid off his ex-wife’s house as well as his own and she’d be living in a multi-million dollar house paid for by her ex-husband. Again, this comes back to the whole “manner to which they’d become accustomed” since the man was highly unlikely to be able to afford to buy his own $1.2 million house, so the rest of his working life would be spent propping up another individual to live in a nicer, more expensive house than he himself could afford. Some would call that slavery.

    It’s cases like the one you’ve written about that see more and more people saying “hey, I think I’d do the same if I were in that situation”.

    The man is doing a variation of the term “going Galt”. He’s depriving the system of his earnings and letting it starve. Don’t think this is an isolated incident and definitely don’t think that shaming men will prevent them from doing this as each and every one of them knows they’ll be labelled as deadbeats. It takes a whole lot of guts to just pack up and leave your life and start over. About the only thing that will slow the rising tide of this will be for the divorce courts to be fairer to men. The ex-wife in this case clearly knew she was putting a ridiculous amount of pressure on the man as she had even gone to ask the government to prevent him leaving the country! The man obviously did his sums and worked out he would no longer be his own man, but rather a wallet to a woman who was still living in their family home and that he’d be better off leaving.

    Everyone has their breaking point, and this woman just applied the straw that broke the camel’s back.

  30. I can only agree with all the posts. I am going through an ugly divorce as well. My wife will most likely try to extort legal custody or even visitation against the right amount of money (alimony/child support). I love our children very much but since my job does not allow me to work in close proximity to our home anyway, I will face some hard decisions. I recommend everybody in this situation to work on a second citizenship …
    Also the book from Stephen Baskerville “Taken into Custody”. Very good!

    Stay strong!

    1. Imo, you don’t have to escape to the Philippines. Check this, but I don’t think Quebec has a reciprocal enforcements of judgments agreement with BC. (Imo, not a legal opinion, maybe its just as good as the Russia, etc.)

  31. I’m so thoroughly happy for this guy who fled Canada and escaped to the Philippines! It’s not very often the good guy wins. It’s th system and his x wife who is morally bankrupt. Poor man, he made a binding divorce agreement and she wants to renig and steal more of his livelihood ? What did she do with the $600k equity she recieved from the house? He only got $175k, she came out way ahead if you ask me.

    Men are sick and tired of getting raped in feminists leaning divorce courts. Ladies, I realize not all of you are trying to rape your x”s or financially ruin them like this lady was attemptimg to do, but for thee rest who are, you reap what you sow . Men are tired of feminism and the bias that exists in the legal system against men. Thank goodness there are countries who will not bend to feministic laws and where the US legal system has no reach! This story was an inspiring read in that for once, one of the good guys won! The system is really screwed up. I hope more men wake up and do the same.

    1. What you’re alleging is endemic, wide-scale bias, against men. What we have in the nearly 90 comments here are “anecdotes” i.e. anecdotal evidence of discrimination, capital D, Discrimination, or even louder DISCRIMINATION.

      This country is not supposed to have DISCRIMINATION against any group.

      How is DISCRIMINATION proven in a court of law, or at least in the public opinion? Let’s look at the United States, which has an headstart on Canada, insofar as ANTI-DISCRIMINATION class actions. Proof is done by population distribution — if the bell curve of the suspected discriminated group doesn’t match the background population, that is enough proof to establish a class action (called “class proceedings” in Canadian courts).

      Here’s what has to be done, in order to stop DISCRIMINATION against men:

      1) Gather statistics of relevant BC cases
      2) Overlap the bell curves
      3) Put the chart on the ‘net
      4) See if some man, a victim of DISCRIMINATION will start a class action

      There are also other ways perhaps to litigate, see the novel case that won finally in the Supreme Court of Canada, the famous “Jane Doe” case, which gave Canadians ‘civil rights’. (This is the negligence case, in the serial rapist case, in Toronto.)


    2. http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcca/doc/2010/2010bcca226/2010bcca226.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQALRGFsZSBGb3RzY2gAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=3

      That’s the BC Court of Appeal judgment on the Permberton woman who spent $180K on her case, and her lawyer is foreclosing on her because she can’t pay her lawyer.

      The guy also had to pay a lawyer, unless it was on contingency.

      The BC Court of Appeal reduced his “win” to 1/10 of the original judgment.

      The man worked for years for her, to upgrade her property and build her a house. (The lower court said the worksmanship wasn’t adequate, but imo these court judgments are merely “alibi” to screw men in the court proceedings, so I do not believe that the man’s works was really substandard.)

      What’s the outcome, for the man and the woman? Bad, very bad. Disaster. The winner is the lawyer(s).

      Moral of the story? Greedy women can lose. It’s as old as Aesop’s parables. She should have merely given the man the $100K, and he would probably walked away happy.

      Insofar as this man needing to declare bankrupcy from the court costs, imo, that is unnecessary. The baiiffs will not waste their time, and she probably doesn’t have money left to pursue execution.

      1. To clarify, “execution” is how “collection” is defined in the courts. It can include a Writ of Seizure and Sale. If you use Canlii.org, you’ll see a few examples, by searching for BAILIFF and WRIT OF SEIZURE. The bailiff cannot enter a home if it is locked and the debtor doesn’t invite the bailiff. Clothing, personal effects, cars, tools can only be seized IF they are above a certain level which is defined by law in BC. In practical terms, from the bailiff sites in BC, you can see that vehicles and equipment are the items usually seized, in divorce matters. If you add the word POUNDAGE in the search, you can see that IF a vehicle is leased, or co-owned, the bailiff can’t seize it legally, either. So, in the Pemberton woman’s story, the man didn’t have to worry about a bailiff coming after him, as it appears he doesn’t have any assets that can be seized. Poetic justice??

  32. Quiz: How well we know our feminist dictatorship?
    Q: We know all judges are against splitting siblings. Can you describe a scenario when all judges are for splitting siblings?
    A: When one already lives with the father.

  33. I am a 44 year old single male living in Canada. The last few years I have had this overwhelming feeling that I want a child. This feeling that I have missed out on life by not getting married and having a child.

    After researching peoples view points on marriage and divorce I have completely changed my mind. I think I will never get married, and even though I am alone I am beginning to think that I have made the right choice to stay a bachelor.

    I feel sorry for all you men who have commented on your horrific experiences and I wish you the best.

    1. Here’s some useful information for males, should you be thinking about a “mate”:

      You must find:
      – Someone who had a happy, trauma-free childhood (women will mostly lie about this, too)
      – Someone who has never taken a single psychiatric drug, or has been in psychological therapy
      – Someone who never had cats (Google: Cat Scratch Disease)
      – Had parents and grand parents who didn’t have mental disorders (psychosis can cross generations)

      If you are living with a female, be cautious, and read “The Predatory Female”, and see if any of the symptoms are present.

      To men in general, please read the book written by a woman, “The Manipulated Man”, who exposes how women allegedly think.

      1. Agreed. Also search Scot Young from the UK and his 7 year divorce proceeding which led to his suicide in Dec. 2014.

        Read the Manipulated Man written by a woman with a PHD.

        Read Alec Baldwin’s “a promise to ourselves” and know parental alienation is real despite him spending $1 million on lawyers and still lost.

        Do a Canlii search on McCain’s divorce (the french fry company) and know that a postnup will not stand a chance in court based on duress (even though she had a lawyer review it).

    2. Thank you Chris. The Danger is REAL. It is not the Cut and Dry, Fifty-Fifty or Fair is Square that you have been taught to believe all along…since Day One! You have a chance to enjoy real freedom, and do the things you really want to do! Look Seriously into MGTOW Activism. Improve youself, make Money, Travel the World and do what you want…when you want!!!

    3. Thank you…Glad you saw the light before it was too late. Don’t worry about dying alone…most people die alone! Marriage is nothing more than a Fraud Contract…and there is virtually nothing in it for a Man. Marriage has no more value than Common Law and Same Sex Marriage! The average Divorce is now dropping down to 4 Years. It’s a Rigged Poker Game with High Stakes and Low Yield. Single Men are far happier than Married Men. Married Men often loath their situation, but they are reluctant to admit it.

  34. Chris…….You are reading stories of people whose marriages did not work out, and who got severely financial damaged from that. Yes, these stories will turn you into a “never want to marry” type. But,…..I am sure you have friends that enjoy their marriages. And,…..there are things you can do to safe guard your financial future and your partner’s financial future should the marriage not work out. But, you have to put these things in place BEFORE you marry. Or, you could choose not to marry…..but, have a lifetime partner and a child.

    You and your partner, whether married or not, if you live together should NOT co-mingle anything you come into the relationship with. If you own a home, or have a savings account, stocks, etc……do NOT put your partner’s name on any of these. And she should NOT put your name on anything she already owns. Set up retirement accounts for each of you in your own names that can grow equally, and each of you can leave with should you part. Find a partner that can pull her own weight financially and has a career she wants to continue. See a lawyer that deals in marital law and write a pre-nup or pre-partnership nup you both are happy with. Address the issues of alimony and child support in this contract. See a lawyer and talk about these issues with your partner to make sure you are both on the same page. The idea is that neither of you get hurt financially, should the partnership not work out. And, like Davy Crockett said,”Be sure you’re right, then go ahead.”

    1. Nim – I can see what you’re trying to do, but unfortunately too many people know people who’ve been burnt in spite of having prenuptial agreements in place and have even seen men burnt for even just living together.
      The biggest problem with what you’ve written is that the pre-nup can (and frequently) be thrown out of court, especially in cases where the situation doesn’t perfectly match the outline of the pre-nup. Having children is the biggest argument for the exclusion of the pre-nup in divorce proceedings and, even if it is upheld, usually the amount of child support payments is increased to make up the difference. Let’s face it, any man who argues that his child support payments are too much is met with “what, you don’t want to support your own children?!?”
      I know of a guy who lost half of his $800k house because he let his girlfriend move in and she walked after only 18 months. In order to be able to stay there he had to ‘buy her out’ by taking out a $400k mortgage. Kind of put his retirement plans on hold since he was 60 at the time!
      Of course you’ll respond with “but he didn’t have a pre-nup” and you’re right, but we are fast approaching a culture where men over 45 will not want to live with women out of fear of losing things they’ve spend a lifetime building up over a relationship that lasts less time than a car loan.

      Georgialee Lang – apply for adoption as a single man? What, because single men aren’t already scrutinized enough without doing things that would put the spotlight on them?!?

      1. Nim and Andy: Beware of women who drink “sugar free” pop, or consume artificial sweeteners. Such women (and men) have imo destroyed their marriages. I’ve seen this from people I know. When one such woman took a holiday where there was no sugar-free drinks, she came back to Canada as a very nice woman, who promised to never touch the artificially-sweetnened pop, ever again. She kept her promise for a month. A few months later, she was separated.

        Look it up, some percentage of people become antisocial from artificial sweetners. On top of that, many big corporations lie about the stuff in their food and drinks. There have been class actions over this.

    1. I also agree and appreciate this blog because it is constantly being updated by users that make valid points and by GeorgiaLee Lang for responding.

  35. It’s Feb 2015. Anyone know the final fate of Donna Mills? Would imagine the house has long since been foreclosed and probably living with relatives. Wonder if she ever got a job or is living off Canadian gov’t assistance? Doubtless she got verbally blasted by others for being so greedy with the Nazi courts backing her.

    Wonder how he likes getting and having to work? hehe

    Mr Hans Mills. You are a hero in my book

    What options did he have in this crooked Nazi court system?

    1) Be an ATM til he or ex-wife dies
    2) Suicide or jail time til he eventually cant make the exorbitant payments
    3) Pay a hit man to off her (Morally I could never do this)
    4) Leave the country and be free from Canadian Nazis

    No reasonable options at all. Being an ATM slave isnt resaonable

    If anyone has updates on anyone in this case. Please post

    1. There are 2 BC (British Columbia) stories that are also worth following up, to see what happened:

      B.C. woman may lose home over huge lawyer bill
      Woman owes $180,000 despite winning lawsuit and being awarded costs


      Real Housewife Of Vancouver Dinged In Divorce Court

      Real Housewives of Vancouver star Jody Claman may have to sell $20,000 ostrich sofa to pay ex-husband

  36. The old Axiom that says that the best realtor is not necessarily the one with the most listings, but the one with the most sales, is true.

    Government data shows that in 2010 uncollected child support in the US is in the billions. Is it possible that it was already awarded too high, but the incentive was the court was granted money for their budget based on how much child support was awarded, not collected?

    Watch “divorce corp” and find out the devastation on children.

    I hope Canada does not have the same system that encourages unsustainable support awards that benefits the courts and not the children that need it the most.

    1. AAA. Unfortunately it does. Virtually all of Canadas Divorce and Family Laws mirror US Laws. Maybe only a Cosmetic Difference in the Wording…but that is all.

  37. Wow, to even suggest that the guy here was in the wrong is laughable. The system left him no choice but to leave. No one can afford to pay $4000 a month to someone, especially when they’ve already given them the house! Insane! Me, and every other sane man (or woman) would leave for the Philippines too! What a joke of an article! What silly spin on it by the author. LOL

  38. After taxes he would have to live on $900 a month or $5.62 an hour which is $5 below minimum wage. Absolutely ridiculous. He made the right decision. This is a perfect example of how our feminist-run family court system brutalizes men which drives many to suicide. Of course the divorce lawyers are in on it too. There’s gold in them there wallets.

    1. Further to Adm’s opinion: about our feminist-run family court system which brutalizes men to suicide or worse.

      Is Gender Bias Real? – See The Numbers

      2015 Gender Bias Study of the Family Court Decisions
      in the Province of British Columbia, Canada


      The ANSWER is there — see the LawDiva’s post on arbitration.

      The problem is getting husbands and wives, who may or may not be informed, or may be just crazy, into the arbitration or mediation table.

      More on “craziness”: There is the little known (very little known) permanent brain damage from butane gas (yup, from the cigarette lighter) inhalation.

      A FRIEND’S FAMILY MEMBERS RECENTLY DID SOMETHING TOTALLY OUT OF CHARACTER, AFTER THEY IMMEDIATELY ATE SUGAR MELTED BY A LIGHTER. UNBURNT BUTANE WAS INGESTED. BUTANE POISONING, APPARENTLY CAUSES PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE. ALSO EXPLAINS WHY ONE WOMAN BECAME ANTIPATHETIC TO HER SPOUSE, AFTER SECRETLY SMOKING AGAIN. The unburnt butane, from cigarette lighters, butane poisoning, explains the mental problems and intermittent irrationality of many smokers, including twitching and depression. Have seen this before, but didn’t see the cause and effect, until now. Some lighters also contain inks and other chemicals. So, smokers, don’t inhale, when lighting up.

      Do a Google search for: Butane – New Experience – Inhalants are dangerous. Do not use this chemical.

  39. I am currently going thru divorce proceedings in New Brunswick. I’m told that alimony (no child support) will be based on the average of my last 3 year income tax (gross amounts). Here’s my problem , I’m an hourly worker and overtime is voluntary. Last year alone I made 135000 gross including military pension. Of that amount about 35000 is from overtime.I’m told I will be paying 2400 to 4400 per month in alimony. If it ends up being the high end I will be forced to work 7 days a week to just barely survive. Bankruptcy will most likely happen especially if overtime is cut (a regular occurrence where I work. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been married 34 years and want what’s fair. I’m more than willing to give her half my military pension and half my base pay, but to include the overtime and force me to work 7 days a week when she is employable but chooses to look after her terminally ill mother (For the last 7 years) is ludicrous. She has also held several jobs in that time. Also she is in N.B.(& years) and I’m in ON. What am I supposed to do? I have a female lawyer and she says her hands are tied by the system as far as what I’m to pay. Again WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? I have considered taking a job in another country as a last resort but I love Canada and don’t want to leave. But if all I’m doing is scraping by while she lives in comfort and doesn’t have to work what other choice do I have?

    1. You need to fall down and hurt your back. Take some time off work and when you go to court tell them that you can’t possibly make that kind of money again after hurting yourself.

      You should also point out that the only reason you worked so many hours is because your wife wouldn’t work and spent so much time taking care of ill family. That you have been exploited financially by a deadbeat wife and shouldn’t be forced to continue to support someone who has contributed so little.

      Sadly, since your pension is military you can’t leave the country. You are pretty much screwed.

      That said, let your story be the cautionary tale for others. Don’t get married. Ever.

      1. Military pensions allow you leave the country but it doesn’t stop the courts from intercepting your pension at the source before it gets deposited to your bank account. My brother left the country for the philippines with his military pension intact. Of course he has no kids or ex wife to support either.

    2. You should Skype with me , I am going through this child support bs and now in poverty. almost homeless, very close to it, if your going through divorce as stated and you have kids your in a mess like me, they take more money from me then the court has ordered, hence why I’m broke now.

      1. Both our boys are grown up and on their own so there won’t be any child support. Wouldn’t mind chatting with you to share experiences dealing with divorce in N.B. Don’t have Skype but maybe we can work out a way to communicate.

  40. I think it is the author of this article who is morally bankrupt.

    Mr. Mills did take care of his children. He gave a generous settlement to his wife which should have set her up for years. He gave generous child support to take care of his children.

    Is it his fault that his wife refused to work and support herself?
    Is it his fault that his wife continued to live well beyond her means in a million dollar home?

    It is Mrs. Mills who broke the agreement and decided to extort more money from her ex husband. It’s unfortunate the circumstances that Mrs. Mills found herself in. Had she been married it would definitely been her husband’s obligation to support her.

    But Mrs. Mills chose to leave and therefore chose to severe the obligations that Mr. Mills had towards her.

    It is immoral for her to use the courts to exploit her ex-husband. It is immoral for the courts to enslave a man after he had already agreed to pay generously to his ex-wife and children.

    I totally support his choice to leave the country. I think more men should do this.

    1. Nothing to add here other than precisely correct. No one should ever be entitled to money for life.
      Marriage must stop being viewed as a contract for life..
      It should really have a 5 yr term that must be legally renewed in order to continue.

  41. Hans Mills is a straight up hero!

    Get used to men not wanting to marry you ladies. You wanted to be “strong and independent” and now you’ve got it. So woman up, go work your 40 – 60 hour work weeks and pay those taxes to support all of the singles moms out there. Enjoy the decline! MGTOW

    1. When I got married where was the contract that I signed that stated that if I marry someone who is not my finical equal that I’ll have to pay them to live the life they have become accustomed to . My situation also leaves me in a position of leaving the country my kids are grown , wife has never been laid off in 28 years , full pension in 3 years paying 1400 mnth , makes 3500 mnth ( 50 K ) , I agreed to 50 -50 split of all assets, savings , etc , my salary 170 K , no pension , lawyers are asking for $ 5000 mnth spousal .

      Wife has 250 k from sale of house , 120 k from inheritance and 1400 a month pension, 3500 a month salary , yet I have to pay her $5000 and I make $ 8500 a month leaving me 3500 , so I now make what she makes this cant be real , when I have to get up each day to go to work in order to pay my wife is the day I leave this country !!!

      Scenerio , If I was to lose my job say at 170 k a year and can only find a job at 100 k can I sue for support payments for the company paying me 170 k cause my standard of living has gone down, if not why is a marriage any different ? Both suffer
      Only in Canada Eh

      1. I learned the hard way that trying to apply logic, ethics or even common sense to Divorce or Family Law in Canada is a waste of time. The only logic is: If you are a man = you will pay until you die and even beyond that if you have an estate or pension etc.

        The Divorce Industry is just that – an industry – so it is not in the interest of the beneficiaries of said industry (namely Lawyers and the Courts in which they practice) to be remotely fair or equitable as keeping the conflict going and punishing the breadwinners (who still tend to be men) as much as possible serves their commercial interests.

        It’s simply not worth it to get married in the US/Canada and you would be insane to take the risk.

        If you can leave, do so so at at your earliest opportunity – hostility toward men in general in North America is not going to go away anytime soon. More likely it will intensify as the feminazi’s get more influence.

        Don’t contribute to and feed the misandrist beast with you hard-earned money,

      2. Here’s a challenge to any men, commenting on LawDiva’s blog, to do something, other than just say, “I give up, the system is tooo bad.” (Sorry, but I stopped attending “men’s support groups” because they didn’t seem to have any courage left in their hearts. All I heard from men was, “it was so unfair to me.” )

        Since there is statistical evidence of anti-male bias in the BC courts, would some real men out there, please take on the admin, or whoever is responsible, for the courts to the BC Human Rights Tribunal? I have seen mostly victories by the filing parties in that forum.

        Check it out, on http://www.canlii.org. Here’s a link:


        Btw, this suggestion is not mine. I heard it, over lunch with guys, from a guy who has two lawyer brothers.

  42. what I have never understood and will never understand is men who leave their first wives with two or three children, to move in with a new girlfriend who has two or three children from other relationships. How does that even make any sense?

    1. It’s because they are Prisoner to the Golden Vajayjay Syndrome! They’re stuck in Blue Pill Values, and actually think that they can’t get by without a Woman. So they foolishly repeat the Cycle over and over. Jumped out of one Fry Pan…and went straight back into another!!!

  43. Another thought comes to mind – most people get married and make promises and vows usually in front of witnesses in church or other places of importance whether they believe in God or not. It seems that these vows are words spoken absentmindedly and perhaps insincerely. Although many western countries have very liberal divorce laws, they somewhat take those vows/promises quite seriously when it comes to dividing assets and child support. Would it not be so much cheaper to spend the money on good relationship counseling, for individuals to be less selfish and be faithful and loyal to the vows that are made? The sad thing about running away is one can never runaway from their own conscious. That part of you that must sleep before you do.

    1. Olive It doesn’t make any sense to me….what I often tell my clients is that it doesn’t get easier the second time around…marriage is hard work, particularly when you are supporting two families. Thanks for commenting! Georgialee

    2. Olive, it doesn’t make “sense”, but their actions are dictated by unhappy childhoods, genetics, and other causes leading to mental disorders. Check out the psych forums — tally the hundreds of posts by partners/spouses of people with disorders, like bipolar and narcissitic or borderline personality disorders. You’ll see that the average relationship is less than 3 years duration. Sadly, the “receiving” partner/spouse will also be damaged and carry “baggage” into the next relationship, resulting in a push-pull, self-fulfilling abandonment, or PTSD thoughts.

  44. court system in canada is disgusting. How can they take so much from that man and he can’t even feed him self. the court rather see him homeless and pay for children but at the end of the day he can’t even afford to eat and put a roof over his head. There are too many vindictive women in the country who feel they can get away with anything. yes we may all need help as some point but when are you also gonna get up and help yourself at the same time. court system sucks in canada but it’s also made easy so that women can work we have programs that are subsidized where your paying next to nothing sometimes $0.00 for daycare every month based on income. Yes her children need a lot care based on their health status but there are programs geared to that, grants that you can get and benefits that you may be approved for i was once on the system and the caseworker told me i can stay home until my child is six. i said no thank you i need help now but this is no long term thing i’m going to school get my education that diploma/degree and make a life for me and my children and did all of that while pregnant with a second one.

    it’s sad and i don’t wrong him for running like really how was he supposed to live.
    oh he could have ate grass to survive, it’s all good!

  45. We should now add after last weeks incident in South Carolina that if you don’t pay child support in the United States you are shot. Walter Scott who had served 5 years in the US coast guard and never had any violent history was killed by a police officer just because he was behind his child support and had therefore a contempt of court order and an arrest warrant against him. Considering that the US is incarcerating more people in the world than any other country (in total and as a percentage), this should not be a surprise to us anymore. Gentlemen, get your second passport going.

    1. At this point I don’t think it is accurate to say he was shot because of outstanding warrants. The police officer pulled him over for a burned out tail light. He apparently ran because he did not want to be arrested. I’m not sure the police officer even knew there was a warrant for his arrest. He shot him without any discussion. The video shows a blatant example of first degree murder. Outrageous!

    2. RE VIOLENCE from the female gender:

      Just see the LawDiva blog, new, on this woman:

      To my mind, it shows that woman can commit crime, but not do time, in Canada.

      Just my opinion: If this woman had been jailed for child abduction, or sent to a psychiatrist, the murders may have been prevented. I say “maybe” because the psychotropic meds actually cause the person taking it to lose their “humanity” and “conscience”.

      Here’s the bigger issue: A male who commits child abduction would have been treated differently. In fact, a husband can get ejected, thrown out of a home, by police, just on any (perhaps mentally-unstable) wife’s “fear”. If not by police, with an ex parte motion by the wife’s lawyer. I know of two real incidents, where this happened. The bigger issue is descrimination, against men, by the “authorities”, who ignore the fact that the women are “behind the domestic violence”, statistically.

      So, as someone in this forum already said: Guys, don’t just take this discrimination, take the “authorities” to the Human Rights Tribunal, and get some justice, even if by a few dollars win.

      Thanks to the LawDiva’s blog for that story on the Mississauga woman.

      I almost forgot: That Mr. Jamali on another LawDiva blog should find out if he can complain about the obvious bias (as the BC Court of Appeal said) from the judge, Groves, in his divorce trial. It was also odd that the BC Court of Appeal didn’t put the name of Judge Groves in the appeal decision for Mr. Jamali, and that the Court of Appeal didn’t speak about giving Mr. Jamali his “costs” in his appeal win, over his former wife.

      1. It’s one of the only and worst ‘dirty tricks’ in family law…The Ex-Parte Motion.
        My ex tried this on me, launched it along with an affidavit filled with the most heinious lies and accusations two days after I left overseas for a week. She made claim for exclusive possession, sole custody and a restraining order…
        Fortunately, I thought they might try this and made a point of calling the Clerk’s office daily. When the motion was served upon the court (without respondent) I explained to the court that the whole basis for an emergency motion was moot….as I was out of the country and could not pose any immediate threat.
        The judge was suspicious of the timing (and possibly the wild accusations) and allowed me to respond via un unsworn affidavit.
        I shredded her affidavit with overwhelming evidence that most of it was either outright lies and/or hyperbole and exaggerations. (Gentlemen, audio tape EVERY and ALL interactions with a STBX)
        Her motion was quashed, I was awarded 50/50 custody, 50/50 occupation of the home and a restraining order was ordered upon her.
        So….watch out for this one…there are grounds for Motions on an Emergency Basis and there are clearly ways to attempt to abuse this proviso…
        Audio tape EVERYTHING.
        Have no exchanges that are not recorded or documented and when away, keep in touch with the court.

  46. I must say, LawDiva, in all earnest, I truly hope that you never are called to the bench.
    The attitude you display towards the ‘financial punishment’ of yet another father, and the court’s enabling of yet another parasitic mother is all too frequently echoed in the family law industry.
    While every parent should contribute in an equitable manner, it also must be expected that every parent put forth an equitable effort as well. This woman was left with a large amount of money…signed off on her claims to support and had means to garner further income and yet chose to pursue her ex-husband and chain him forever to the post of her welfare.
    No one is entitled to ‘money for life’ and no one is entitled to be middle class forever. A marriage must stop being considered a contract for life. If this attitude does not change…marriage itself will continue to fall out of favour.
    To those ends, never should there be open ended awards of support.
    It is small wonder that so many otherwise ‘eligible’ bachelors refuse any commitment to a woman and no wonder so many, tired of being an ‘ATM machine’ to an otherwise capable person, elect to leave.
    A similar situation is looming on my horizon…and I am using the interim time researching second passports, flags of convenience, studying Spanish and weighing the residency requirements of non-signatory countries.

    I plan on leaving my vindictive, parasitic ex-wife an almost verbatim copy of the one Mr Mills wrote…with a post script “Hasta la vista, baby…”

  47. You people are stupid, ignorant and unrealistic.
    The system is a racket. They claim to do things in the best interest of the child. The reality is the system is build to bleed the man dry. I know an engineer who makes over 90K a year. However, he pays child support, healthcare, and childcare ( ordered by the courts) … but initiated and chosen by the mother. He is left with $546 take home pay. The irony is that the courts want to increase his payments now.

    IN Oklahoma USA, the courts can take up to 60% of one’s income for child support before taxes! In addition to this the non-custodial parent is responsible for 100% of medical and dental insurance coverages, pus 50% to 80% of any out of pocket related deductibles or fees. In addition the non-custodial parent is responsible for 50% to 80% of childcare expense ( and NO, they are not allowed to care for the child,only to pay for someone else to care for them.) NOW the real kicker is…. Federal taxes are around 40% of one’s income, and state is around 9% to 12%. So, he is facing legal recourse either way.
    A)Either pay your full support payments, and not your full taxes ( go to federal prison for non-payment of taxes.)
    B) Pay your federal taxes, and then not your full child support and go to state prison for being a dead-beat dad.

    The reality is there is no way a person making $90K (already maxing out financial earning potential) and only taking home $546 a month can be expected to live and survive in America. There is something really wrong with this world when the lazy can leach off the righteous and hardworking people.
    This man did nothing to deserve this, he was a good husband and father. His wife started using drugs ( meth), and became addicted. She eventually left him for the drugs. But that’s not a reason in OK to not give her custody. She goe the kids, the house ($240K which she sold, and kept all the money) more drugs, other men coming and going, and is promised more from the government which they intend to take from him.
    The man I speak of is a friend and co-worker. The people at work are all scared of him, because we are afraid he will snap one day and start killing people and himself. But, this is just the way the system is….
    Yet according this articles author… he is a dead beat dad…
    you should be ashamed for yourself.

    1. Help him escape the country. Maybe even get some other employees/engineers to pitch in some cash. Having an Engineers degree/ skill will allow him to live very, very good in a country like the Phils. He wont have a problem getting a job. He could follow Hans Mills and try find online love and marry someone. He cannot get behind more than 2500 usa in child support or he will lose his passport escape window………………………….and then be ass raped by the ex until infinity or death

      Asylum is another option and would take time to petition other gov’ts by email and letters. A USA immigration lawyer might be able to help and possibly for free if his USA OK job has a legal services benefit. DO NOT TELL THE LAWYER YOU ARE TRYING TO DODGE CHILD SUPPORT/ALIMONY. Better to say you are being politically discriminated against. Might be best to contact a lawyer in a foreign country and ask the procedure for asylum. If the foreign lawyer is willing to help, then of course you will have to pay their fees. With Asylum he is protected by a foreign gov’t and can’t be sent back to the USA

      Anything has to be better than being extorted to the bone on 546 a month. Nelson, if he is really a good man and friend, help him out of this country.

  48. re: nelson b.’s post: OMG, I didn’t know that is possible. Can’t he just get the amounts lowered? by appeal? (Or, was I just living in a “Reader’s Digest” world all this time?)

    1. Unfortunately when a lot of Men file a Motion of Change, the support order seldom ever goes down…if anything it will either be (stayed) and in a lot of Cases…raised even Higher than before! Okay…go back to your Readers Digest! lol

  49. These stories makes me think back to my childhood, i am one of those children that was held hostage in a alimony battle, so i guess you could say im the end result of all this bullshit.

    -I will NEVER get married EVER, i have had relationships come to “either we marry or we split up” twice in my life and i always chose the latter
    -It`s impossible just for me to completely trust women, if one even suggest we marry, part of me thinks she`s trying to get me into a trap
    -I had a Vasectomy at age 21, just to be in complete control of who i father a child with

    Just wait until more kids like me grow up, marriage my very well not be in your daughters future

  50. Leaving the country would be the best option for the Engineer in OK USA. Sooner or later he is going to unable to make the payments and get thrown in and out of jail like a revolving door. What about he kids you say? Well since the lady is smoking away most of the money, only a pittance will be used for the kids

    Read some online messages recently. A man from the USA east coast fled to the state of Arizona to avoid extortionate child support and alimony. For some months he appeared to live in a trailer in the desert and not working. If one does not work a job, the gov’t cannot get money from a person. For about 4 months he wrote letters or email? to various foreign nations requesting political ASYLUM from the persecuting USA gov’t He said the German gov’t accepted his ASYLUM and will protect him from the USA child support/alimony scam

    Not sure how he left the USA. Even if he has a USA passport, it is surely revoked by child support/alimony. I dont think the man was a dual citizen of 2 countries. Maybe the German govt helped him?

    No doubt the child support/alimony scam is persecution for money and can lead to the protection of Asylum from another gov’t

  51. His actions were clearly fair; she was a despicable woman who was probably laughing at the time when she thought about milking him dry.

  52. Men getting smart and not suckered is the only hope we have that this racket will stop.
    Do NOT get married…and watch the clock for the Common Law requirements in your jurisdiction.
    Only a partner who brings assets of equal value to the table, is self-sufficient in every way and is willing to sign an iron-clad prenup should be all that’s ever considered for a LTR.

  53. I must say this is a very good thread. Unfortunately I am one of the (FALLEN) and am in the arrears about $1500 USD, My child support obligation is about $324.00 USD per month i only gross $2448 USD but when everything is said and done I only take home $1100 USD per month.

    Now I know this is peanuts compared to you people who are making $100k plus per year but still its money I need to live and I to am looking at the possibility of leaving the country.

    I would love to speak with the people who have left the country and are living abroad on there own working I would like to become you’re student and learn from you I want to live a life not in fear I have already been threatened by DSHS division of child support and told that that if I do not turn in forms that he will raise my child support obligation.

    I have been told if I become delinquent that they will put a warrant out for my arrest. I am a nervous reck I am being attached at work severely mostly by immigrants and a lot of fellow Americans.

    When people see you’re weak they are curious to see how you can be pushed to see maybe if they can bring the crazy out in you.

    I want to speak with people who can educate me and give me a clear understanding I see some people go to russia czech republic ect…..

    here is my phone number call or text messages I do not care to know who you are just only know how you EXITED the country and stayed gone


    Please no crazy people only realistic truthful people

  54. If you really want a nightmare scenario, Google “Dave Foley child support” – the just of which is Dave Foley (NewsRadio, Kids in the Hall) stated that as a result of having been judicially mandated to pay his ex wife 400% (!!!) of his income in child support, he cannot return to Canada without facing imprisonment. The Judges in these cases should be imprisoned.

    1. We don’t want to hear horror stories of men being destroyed by this child support sysyem.

      We know its dangerous and should be abolished

      Give us answers to escape how to move where to go how to start a new life

      Real answers no more people just chatting we are in the horror situation now and need tips steps strategies


      1. @ child support slave

        I know I can’t offer any advice that may help you, but the reality is that men who are currently in the process of fleeing will be hesitant to divulge their escape route for fear that the route may be closed off. It may also draw the attention of the government to the holes through which men are leaving and prompt them to find ways of closing them, not only stopping the men who are fleeing, but also stopping men who aren’t fleeing, from going anywhere.

        I would suggest that you try to find someone who has ‘left’ and get them to mentor you on polishing your escape plan.

        I can understand your frustration because, like anything, having two million people agree with you that there’s a problem doesn’t change anything until one of those people comes up with a solution.

        The most important thing is to NOT TELL ANYONE you’re planning on leaving, lest they make your life even harder before you’ve had a chance to set anything up.

      2. Well you mention good answers to some of my questions. I know everything must be a secret nobody can know or my life will seize to exist.

        Try to mention what countries don’t have extraction treaties with USA where we can find sanctuary where we can find a job live comfortable hell even if you own a vacation home in Thailand may we reuge there till we get on are feet

        Anything people help us we are child support slaves and want to escape we want to live to I want to be happy again not live in fear

      3. You can always take a bar management course or bartender which will provide employment anywhere in the world. If you want to get out of the country, you have to do so before your passport is seized. Get married in order to get citizenship in your chosen country [or obtain citizenship the normal way] and you have a new legal passport on which to travel. Keep a low profile and do not divulge the country in which you have settled to anyone. Use any country but where you are actually located. In order for the collection agency to serve papers on you, the mother has to locate you and give them an address. If this cannot be done, you are okay until found & FMEP will not search for you. If you change your name there is a record but when you get married take on your wife’s name instead & you are now a different person. It is not illegal. You are now “underground” and now using your secondary passport, you can even visit the country you left.

        If you live in the U.S., certain states do not have a reciprocal arrangement with other states or countries. In this case, you can remain and work in the U.S. and the collection agency cannot touch you.

  55. @child support slave

    Do not get more than 2500 USA behind in Child support or alimony or you will your passport escape window. As long as you have a job, your wages will slowly eat into the CS arrears. If you get too far behind in CS, you are stuck permanently in the USA. If you get over 2500 USA CS in arrears and then “caught up”, it will probably take at least 2 years to get the mess straightened out before you can get a passport again.

    Never discuss your life with co-workers. It may be best if you can move to another shift or another dept. to get away from bad co-workers.

    You can find information on CS treaty countries in wikipedia. The list isn’t big. Keep in mind that most all “anglosphere” nations have a CS treaty with the USA.

    You could contact a lawyer in say Thailand (or whatever nation) and ask what it takes to become a resident there. If you are willing to pay their fee, you might get fast tracked out of the country. Do not mention anything about CS. Better say you are dissatisfied with country’s policies and want a new life.

    Lets say you get hopelessly behind in CS to 30,000 USA. Your only hope would be to request political Asylum (maybe with lawyer help)

    If you have 10+ plus years to pay into this extortion racket, leaving the country may be best. CS is generally spent on the mothers self indulgence. It is nothing more than a scam for the govt to make big money under the Title IV-D act of 1975 It funds the judges and politicians salaries and retirement. Truly sick scam using kids for this

    Anyone paying forever alimony should leave the USA

    1. @Basalt

      We’ll my friend you share some good advice what will happen if I leave the usa and I am unable to live in another country. And years later I return lets say I am 20,000 dollars in the hole.

      Due to child support arrears when I get to the airport in united states and customs I will be detained upon reentry ? Will I go to prison and if yes for how long.

      Also can you tell me what countries do not have extradition treaties with the united states of america and where are good places I can live where they like Americans and I can generate by working having a good job a good life.

      Iv’e been told Australia and New Zealand check with united states of america to see if you owe or cleared of any criminal history.

      My son is five years old if I stuck to pay for him it would be thirteen more years. And if his mother decides to put him in college I could be paying till he is close to twenty five years old we are talking about a good eighteen more years of paying child support. That’s the rest of my life I don’t want this

      I want to be free and not have to worry or look over my shoulder I will renounce my status as american to have a better life I want my stress to go away.

      Another question is if I leave the united states of america and become a citizen in another country. I want to travel to other parts of the world like Europe or anywhere will I be harassed anytime I go somewhere If I travel to the country that has a treaty with usa will this country deport me even for just passing through I don’t want to feel like a fugitive the rest of my life

      Give me you’re thoughts opinions if you want to speak on the phone I would be willing to do so

      1. CSS – assuming you can get a passport (now) it will last 10 years. That’s 10 years to start your life over. I would have advised you to get more pages added but this practice has been stopped so you’ll need to be careful using them for visas. If you go the Asia route be aware that you’ll likely encounter the dreaded ‘visa run’ which may require burning up 2 or 3 pages of your 52 page passport every 3 to 6 months. Doesn’t sound like much until you stretch it out a few years.

        Child support arrears do not show up on criminal background checks. It is considered a ‘civil’ matter which carries criminal penalties *in the USA ONLY*. This gets around that nasty trial by jury and double jeopardy ancient relic of our once free nation. C.S. allows them to charge you again and again and again for the same crime in perpetuity until you pay the bill (with fees, court add ons, interest, penalties, etc. of course) and put you in jail essentially forever – well it will be only six months but you’ll be ‘recycled’ (yes that’s a real term) which means you’ll be re-arrested the day you are let out, charged with the same crime, and put back into the for profit prison system.

        Now the good news is most nations with any sense much cares and even those that say they do don’t really. It’s a lot of trouble to go after you in another country, even western ones with agreements, and changing jobs is an option if by some miracle they decide to make a case out of it. HINT: unless you’re a high roller they WONT make a case out of it as the cost to do it is high and bureaucrats in other countries do not materially benefit from forcing you to send money to another country. If you do leave though understand they will automatically put you in the HHS database for passport denial. When you go to renew your passport the State department runs your social security number through 3 separate databases – one for criminal felony warrants, one for taxes (this is new), and one for child support (thanks Clinton). If you are red lighted here the embassy or consulate will show you no mercy – at all. I don’t care if you have 4 children with leprosy all of whom will die if you leave the government workers there will sneer and tell you to have your day in court or whatever. They will not care and they certainly will not help you. They’ll offer to charge you a ridiculous amount of money for a oneway passport with no pages good for travel back to the plantation ONLY. Show up at any airport in the US with this thing and you might as well be shouting arrest me when you walk through TSA security. This means your entire life is bound up in that one blue book – it is your soul and if you lose it or it gets stolen or damaged you are absolutely screwed.

        Getting new citizenship is going to require getting multiple notarized, sealed, apostilled, things from the US including birth certificates, FBI background checks, and possibly university transcripts. The good news is you can do all of this while abroad – the bad news is this is expensive and I mean REALLY expensive like $500-$600 a document and your new home will absolutely want a fresh one, lose it, want another, and no the ones you got when you were living in the US just won’t do because they have seals dated last year. Yes your birth certificate doesn’t change just because its a new year but they have their rules you see. You are going to have to deal with a lawyer familiar with local citizenship laws and not a single country on Earth views getting your residency / citizenship as some kind of right you can simply demand because rayciss – only the US does that. So unless you get married again or do an “investor” citizenship (north of 1/2 million dollars) you’re going to have to do it with time. The web will tell you 7 years for this jurisdiction, 5 for that one, 6 for this one so long as your living working there. Those are minimums … MINIMUMS and your process will drag on another 2-3 year for … reasons… it will trust me. You’ll be almost out of time on your passport when you finally get it. Oh and you really can’t use your passport during its last year of use because most places demand a minimum of 18 months left before they’ll renew residence or such.

        Just trying to show you what you are stepping into and it isn’t easy. Now I’ve done it – and its not impossible – and I am free but my f***ing G*D it was lots of knuckle biting and waiting and frustration. Better than living homeless or in prison all my life (my option back in the US) but it wasn’t fun to be sure. Good luck.

        Oh and one last thing. The world isn’t America. Nobody is going to help you – no one. If you are in need the rest of the planet will take that as a challenge to try to rip you off and separate you from whatever savings you managed to get out with you so don’t trust anyone. Don’t listen to anyone who says they can get you citizenship and a passport in 2 years with no major investment. That person, lawyer or otherwise, is ripping you off. There is *no* underground railroad for men, this is NOT the slave owning South circa 1840, and there is NOT a Harriet Tubman waiting to help you with food, shelter, etc. No one gives a damn about you, justice, kindness, or anyone else – this is survival and if they can get a few thousand out of you by them dooming you in the process that isn’t something they’ll lose sleep over. Anyone who tells you that they want to help is planning on stealing from you – this is your battle ALONE. Also understand that your family will completely disown you if you do this because ‘you left’. That’s all they say ‘you left’. They won’t care you’re a slave. They won’t care that you had no choice. They will just repeat that over and over and act like you were a bad person for not staying and fighting for your rights because they are stupid, brainwashed, idiots who have no idea how the system works, and their legal understanding comes from watching LA law on Nick at night.

        That’s the situation and its not for the faint of heart. I won’t blow sunshine up your a** because what I’ve done is NOT easy and i’ve seen several try it and so far out of my little group (you’ll meet a LOT of other men in your position if you make the leap) i’m the only one who has succeeded to the point of actually being able to say i’m not an illegal alien. Good luck.

  56. This is my REAL TRUE Ontario Family Law case for you, with hopes of getting your opinions for me….

    My ex and I arrived in 1998 to Ontario Canada, and both became Canadian citizens 4 years later.

    We had two kids before arriving, one born in Mexico and the other one in the USA (youngest one).

    In 2010 (when we completed 20 years of marriage{we got married in Mexico}) my ex left Ontario Canada and left me, in charge of the two kids and she did hired a lawyer to get divorced. I had to do the same.

    I had to evaluate the cost of the matrimonial house and our savings and my pension, and after a lot of lawyer fees and 4 years later I had sole custody of my kids (now the oldest one is married, and only my 17 year old lives with me (as per 2015), she was then11 years old at the time of separation).

    My divorce happen just last year in Feb 2014…. yes 4 years later ($$$$)…..

    My ex never call the kids for Xmas or sent them a card or present, she did not even attend my oldest one wedding two years ago. She only came once to see her lawyer, and spend 1 hour with my youngest one. Never have contacted or sees my youngest one….. and I had nothing to do with it.

    In 2010, I did handle to remortgage to keep up with the alimony and expenses imposed to us (the kids and I) and keep the matrimonial home and pay for my now married kid university, as she was going through first year of university at the time of separation, I think you guys can see I was going through divorce proceedings, and even when in no fault, it was hard, and I know it has been even harder for many of you… (FYI I do not own a big house $200K approx and drive a MY2000 car for transportation)….

    I have been paying $1,500 Cad per month in alimony, I have never missed one single payment,
    I have never missed feeding and supporting my two kids and I do love them a lot.
    Even when my ex left the country without even telling us in advance (as she went to live in Can Cun mexico, where she lives with the younger boyfriend she left with), her family is very wealthy (that is why she lives in Can Cun), but my lawyers do not even respond now to my eMails when I ask if after paying 5 years of alimony I can go to ask for a revised amount…. my ex is a lawyer and she is capable of working in Mexico, and her family owns a law firm there too…. yet for Canada, she is a NON working spouse and I should keep supporting her indefinitely … is any lawyer here that can suggest to me what to do to reduce the alimony? I make $100K per year and they impose her $20K, her family will inherit her millions of dollars in few more years, but I gave her my penssion in order to keep supporting my kids…. Amy toughs?
    according with Family Law I suppose to keep giving her alimony until I retire?

    Your advise is appreciated.

    1. There is a BC case, where a lawyer is seeking to stop support payments after age 65 .. anybody know the “math” of age-vs-support obligations?

      Or, is it a “life sentence”?

      1. So long as the payor has income, that is not derived from previously divided assets, and the recipient has need or was awarded “compensatory” support, support will continue past age 65. I acted for one client who at 72 was still paying his ex-wife. He was in a catch-22. He had to keep working so as not to be in contempt of an $8,000 a month spousal support order (he was a self-employed doctor). Eventually, the court cut his payments in half and he later negotiated the termination of support with his ex who was 17 years younger and a professional woman with income of $75,000 per annum.

    I supported my ex through his education
    I supported my ex through his Naval Career and his civilian career
    I supported my ex by taking care of his children(without me caring for our kids his naval career would not have been near impossible as a single parent)
    When he asked me to leave MY military career to take care of our kids I gave in.
    When he asked me to leave MY healthcare jobs that i had throughout our marriage to take care of the kids so that he can pursue a civilian career with a hectic schedule I GAVE IN.
    When he asked me to drain the savings account i had from my single years (which later served as our emergency funds) from my previous jobs so we can pay credit cards because his spending was out of control I GAVE IN.
    I did the family laundry, cleaning, cooking (because he wouldn’t since he was too busy tinkering with his antique car). He also spent very little time with his boys because after all, in his mind, “mom” (me) can take care of them.
    HE got was home by 4PM daily and “relaxed” or went out with friends. I worked until midnight and up by 5am the next day. No social life for me.

    My reward?: A husband who cheated on me numerous times throughout our marriage.
    A middle aged husband who told a judge in the midst of our divorce that he couldn’t pay ANY child or spousal support because there wouldn’t be enough money left for his 20 year old MISTRESS who had expensive taste and who he MOVED IN(against court orders) to our home a week after i MOVED into a tiny apartment with my two boys.
    He felt that since i returned to work (to a low paying job which was all i could find during the economic downturn) that i should be able to handle supporting his kids (which were in daycare so that i can work) on my own.

    A man who blamed ME for our divorce because, as he put it (in front of male lawyers) i wouldn’t let him continue his affair and accept his latest mistress moving in with us so that he can keep the marriage intact, while maintaining his mistress under the same roof.

    When the judge asked me how i was managing i pulled out paperwork showing that i was borrowing money from everywhere just to survive. At that point i still had no furniture, just beds for my kids ( i slept on the floor on a blanket).
    Meanwhile my ex is taking trips with his teenie bopper girlfriend to Hawaii and other states unbeknowst to me on OUR JOINT credit card ( i had cancelled all of them before i moved out except for one that i had no idea he still had ( he told me he had cancelled it the year before and it was a card i never used).
    Yes the paper-trail of his deeds were long–including paying for LUXURY APARTMENT for his mistress on our joint accounts(before i cancelled them) and wanted to make ME responsible for HER apartment COSTS!
    He then had the GALL ask me to pay half of the BILL for our JOINT Account so he could keep treating his Mistress NICE THINGS.

    At that point i just wanted to be quick to extricate the ex husband out of my life so —
    I agreed to only 4 years of spousal support (eventhough i was entitled to a quarter of his military retirement pay-remember i am trying to protect the emotional wellbeing of my kids by preventing years of drawn out court battle)
    left him the 250k house with everything in it, only got a tiny portion of the equity while he got all the debts on credit cards most of which he had used with other women.
    In spite of my making only $10.00/hour at the time, and his salary close to $100K, his child support ended up being a little over $500.00/month for TWO kids ( daycare cost $700/month for one) and a $200/month spousal support. My so called spousal support ended up going ENTIRELY to the kids. Though we had joint legal custody (i had physical) the kids were with me 80% of the time (thank God for that) which made my cost of living/surviving higher than his.

    My ex was GIDDY when he came out of that mediation room and raced home to give the “good news” to his mistress turned girlfriend of how he “won” everything–the house, the contents, kept his retirement intact, got to keep his 401K, IRAs (which were supposed to be in both our names) in tact etc. To celebrate they took a trip to the Caribbean the following week.
    How do i know what he said and what he did? My teenager at the time who was staying with him for a few days told me when he was dropped off so my ex can go on that Caribbean cruise with his bimbo.

    The biggest IRONY? Eventhough i was dead broke i was RELIEVED and actually HAPPY to get him out of my life.

    I knew i would be broke for while but would be ok because i was DRIVEN and didn’t stop pushing until i landed a $45K job (which i calculated is what i would need to raise my kids without his child support charity) two years later. I had to sacrifice a lot of time with my kids in order to work multiple jobs. What saved me is that i was very Frugal, driven, and my prayers.

    as for the Ex husband? Well for the two years i was scrapping he was spending money on his teenie bopper girlfriend like it was going out of style. At the end of those two years he was facing a $100k debt, bankruptcy and foreclosure.
    When he told his missy that they would have to sell the house and move into a tiny apartment she left him. Yep, miss “i love you not your money” dumped my ex for another MARRIED MAN with MORE money.
    He later found out that she had been leeching off of MULTIPLE married middle aged men (easier targets because most are looking for young vaginas according to her) whose marriages she had helped destroy and when they found themselves broke, she walked.

    HOw do i know this? Because my ex came crying (yes real tears) to my door on his birthday to tell me that he would be late on child support and when i took him to get some coffee because i didnt want our kids to see him like that (he was a real mess, unshaven, unshowered, dirty etc)
    He told me the whole story of what she had been doing for the last two years and how she ended up leaving him for another man taking with her-his dog, his things, and all the money he had in bank accounts.
    Then he APOLOGIZED for treating me (the only woman that had genuinely treated him decently) like Sh*T. He lost his job, filed bankruptcy and almost lost the house.
    But did he learn? Nope. For the next 8 years he continued to hook up with women that have cheated on him, stolen from him, treated him like crap, have been in prison for drugs, have mental issues etc. His world has spiraled into depravity.

    As for myself and the kids? Well i have been in a relationship for 7 years with a man that treats me like a woman should be treated and who treats my kids like his own. We were married 4 years ago.
    Our mortgage is about to be paid off in full thanks to a trust that my grandfather left for me when i was little (i am now 48) and which i never even knew existed until recently when my parents told me after the sale of my grandfather’s estate.
    I have zero credit card debt (haven’t owned a credit card in 10 years), zero auto loan since i paid off my car 3 years ago after landing another great job, zero student loan since my grandfather’s estate paid the remaining balance a few weeks ago. If that hadn’t happened i was on tract to pay the remaining in the next two years from my savings.
    One more thing, though i am not Religious attending church every Sunday, but rather more spiritual—
    I never forgot to thank GOD throughout my darkest days.
    I thanked him for getting me out of a miserable marriage even though i ended up dead broke.
    I thanked him for allowing me to marry my ex so that i could one day learn the difference between a lousy husband and a good husband.
    I thanked GOD for all the blessings he has bestowed on our family, even when we had little.
    I thanked GOD for the struggles because in those struggles there were valuable lessons to learn and yes even miracles.
    I thanked GOD for the strength he gave me to get through some very dark periods.
    I also asked for forgiveness and asked him to remove hate and anger from my heart.
    My prayers were answered–not in the ways i imagined they would but in ways that, in the end, would end up serving my family better.
    I witnessed alot of “ironic” moments which made me realize they were miracles at work and thanked him for being with me always.
    Eventhough my life is amazing right now, I have not forgotten to continue to thank him.

    Oh and NO money in the world is worth abandoning your kids. I would rather live in out of a car if that was my only option,than abandon my kids. And i would have parked that car right in the street right front of my ex’s house just so that i could see my kids (if he had majority custody).

    By the way Georgialee what happened to that man was ABUSIVE. No one should be allowed leave their ex DESTITUTE just so they can collect beyond what is reasonable and FAIR.

    1. It is easy to say that you would never abandoning your kids. If your wife takes you to the cleaners full scale … taking all the money you earned and extorting custody or even child visitation (that she controls anyways; an uphill battle) for future alimony and child support etc. I love my son more that anything but should I become the slave of my wife as this has been described on this page?

      1. Agreed. Some do “get off” on the false moral high ground. If you cannot support your self and put a roof over your head, how can you be a father to your kid? Simply put, you can’t. Working extra hours or 2 jobs (on the books) to try and support your kid and live will only allow the nasty cupcake to receive even more money from you. Easy to pay double CS.

        Sure you can pay a lawyer to fight custody and lose anyway. Big waste of of time and money to fight a rigged court. As a man, be ready lose in court.

        Should you “chump up” and decide to pay the Ex for 18 yrs, be ready for those nasty court letters if you lose your job They really get off their A$$ fast once the CS gravy train stops. They dont care about kids or visitation rights. There is no money in that. The CS court only cares about the gold in your wallet

        If I had years and decades to pay CS and/or alimony, I would leave the country. Being stressed for life and paying a parasite will only allow the ex to live the high life. You won’t be able to have a life economically and could be in and out of jail, assuming you can’t make payments for whatever reason. Most people don’t make the same salary forever. Paying alimony in this day and age is a crock of BS. Those feminazis want to have have their cake and eat it too. Feminazis say they dont need a man, but they do want/need his money. Alimony should be banned in all forms. It only makes one side an economic slave. People need to move on and not be tied to their exes welfare forever. Divorce 50/50 of assets and be done 100%. Too much common sense here with court money greed clouding judgement

  58. @child support slave

    Will post more thoughts this weekend. If you leave the USA, it will have to be forever. Unless these Nazi laws change………you have to stay exiled. If you re-enter the USA with new citizenship (say Thai), its possible you could be detained and jailed. I do not know what would happen if you went to Canada with a new citizenship (say Thailand) and tried to enter that country. Its likely nothing will happen. Better to be safe and avoid those countries with USA CS treaties

    Like Hans Mills the bill keeps piling up at 4000 a month plus interest. Sure the debt is un payable. It will never stop accruing and mounting. Your CS bill would still be there if you returned to the USA. Don’t risk it.

  59. I don’t have an issue with Child Support, I think it should be natural to want to help your kids regardless. What I do have an issue with Spousal maintenance I agree there should be a period for which they support should continue, but the whole paying maintenance until death sounds stupid (I am talking about UK law). I see a lot of parents here considering moving abroad to avoid payments and start their lives over again, then I read about (REMO), does REMO cover (Child support payments Only) OR does (REMO also enforces Spousal maintenance if you are abroad?).

    Anyone has any knowledge on this subject?

    1. Guys any feedback on this? Much appreciated I am weighting my options. Any input will be very much appreciated.

      1. Be creative! Have you a physical injury that could, at anytime, force you out of work? SS can go both ways… Can you impute a wage on her? Maybe offer 3 years tuition and support so that she can get on her own two (perfectly good) legs… Should there not be a solution, a second passport or residency elsewhere…

  60. @child support slave

    If you live in one of the following USA states CA,AL,HI,IA,IN,IL,MA,NY,NJ,MO,CT,MS,OR,WA, you will be forced to pay college costs in addition to CS. It does not matter if you are married or not. It does not matter whether or not you can afford the tuition. You will be forced to take out loans if possible. One way or another, the state will force you to pay. Most states cap the college tuition costs at normal in-state college costs. If junior decides to go to Harvard, you should only have to pay 1/2 (typically) the tuition cost of an in state university. Mom and junior are supposed to pay the remaining half of college. Some states throw in the cost of a car, car insurance, computer, room and board, books, car insurance, money allowance, cell phone, etc. as part of college expenses. In those cases, junior gets a debt free ride. Many fathers simply don’t have the money after divorce and pay CS to 23 yrs or so. From the stories I have read, the NC parent (mostly dad) ends up paying 70% plus of all the college expenses

    Dads are only supposed to be ATMs for the kids. They are not supposed to enjoy life or have any chance at retirement. Hard to live and enjoy life when all dad does is slave away at work. Its all on dear old dad to sacrifice. Mom typically gets a free pass in all this and can do no wrong. In the courts and exes view, its not wrong if dad never has chance to retire right???

    CS slave—-if you stay in the USA, you can be sure cup cake (your ex) will take you to the cleaners and force you to pay for college. By 2028 College costs will be at least 150,000 minimum. If you put in other misc. college expenses plus child support, the cost will easily be in the 250,000 plus range over 4 yrs. In the end, you will foot most of the bill. Yes you would likely pay forever unless winning the lottery

    The biggest contradiction is that married couples can refuse to pay for college and junior is on his own. Divorced or never married couples can be forced to pay college in some USA states. This is discrimination against never married couples, but the law is ignored in those states.

    England, Canada, New Zeeland, and Australia are places you probably should not visit.

    DO NOT WORK a 2nd job on the books if you need more money. If you are found by the courts (they do 3 yr reviews) to have a 2nd income, they can easily double your CS for one kid. Work off the books if you want additional money. Its almost impossible to lower CS once it has been raised. Your new level of CS can easily be 650+ usa monthly.

    Try to live cheaply and meagerly until you can leave (maybe live with parents, relatives, or friends)

    Can be contacted luker1001@hotmail.com (spam will be blocked and deleted)

      1. @ Scott

        The information is not hard to find through search engines. Better to list the nations not safe for CS debt

        ***Hague Convention of Treaty on Recovery of International CS and HR 1896***

        Australia, Canada, Czech., El Salvador, Finland, Hungary, Ireland, Israel, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Slovak. Rep, Switzerland, and the U.K

        ***Hague Convention on International Recovery of CS and other forms of Family Maintenance***

        Albania, European Union (Except UK and Denmark), Norway, Ukraine

        Keep in mind that any USA state can try to pursue a CS or alimony case anywhere in the world. Your chances might be best if you can get Asylum or go to any nation not on these lists. Some USA states may have agreements on HR 1896 with other foreign nations in addition to those listed. Its up to you to check out the laws in your state.

        Keep in mind that everything I have written has not been “battle tested.” Yet, there must be some truths to the stories of people fleeing this extortion racket. Hopefully the research and suggestions can help someone

  61. Whoah thiѕ blog is fantastic… i love reading yоur posts.
    Keep up the great work! You realize, many indivіduals are looking round
    for this info, you can help thеm greatly.

  62. @Basalt

    We’ll this information is useful. I knew about paying child support up until the child was 24 years old but I did not know about paying the tution expenses.

    250,000 is a house a very nice house. If I am trapped paying this type of money that’s too much as it looks right now I will be paying 50,000 but I am sure my salary will not stay the same

    Basalt I will contact you for more advice you seem to know about this stuff I assume you suffered from the same child support slavery as us.

    1. @ CS slave

      Keep in mind this assumes Junior will actually go to college in 13 yrs. Once those vindictive exes get a taste of that CS gravy train, they will want to keep the gravy pouring in as long as possible. She is sure to “encourage” junior to go to college for the benefit of his “future.” Even when junior is 18+ yrs in age, the CS will go to mom to spend as she pleases. CS won’t stop during those summer months, when junior is not in college. The judge won’t allow the CS to go to junior

      The states that force non-married or divorced people to pay college have different variations on how long you pay college. I heard in New Jersey that its possible junior could screw around and flunk courses for a time and you still pay for it——- plus the CS time is extended. Usually a student must maintain a certain GPA to continue the college pay law. So if junior flunks out for 1 year, then you might get a reprieve and the insanity might stop. However family court is a crap shoot, and “it depends on the judge” on whether not the CS and college pay stop

      Also it is possible for junior to sue you for college expenses or even sue both you and the ex. I don’t think kids are entitled to a free ride or near free ride to college. Life changes for bad sometimes and people need money to cover medical or put food on the table.

      The courts don’t care if salary stays same or not. They impute your income on it——–like your salary always stays the same. Yet an ex (the female typically) does not have her income imputed. They will adjust to her benefit if she quit working or collects state welfare. All for the states money coffers to extort you for more

      1. Forgot to add Junior could flunk out 1 year of college and the judge could decide junior “deserves” a 2nd chance to succeed. Its also possible junior could take 5-6 years to graduate, if he goes that route. All the while the CS gravy train is relentless on top of tuition payments. Basing my assumptions on NJ college pay law

        In my state, there is no college pay law. A man is free once the kid is 18 yrs or graduates high school. If the kid flunks a grade or two, it is possible CS can go to 19.5 years maximum

        If you are divorcing, DO NOT AGREE TO PAY COLLEGE in the divorce settlement. You don’t know what college expenses will be in the future. And if junior goes to an Ivy league school, be prepared to pony up the funds. Its about 47,000-50,000 a year on tuition alone in 2015-2016. Even if you do not live in a college pay state, the ex can try to use “college cost” in a way to extort you to settle in a divorce agreement. If you agree in a divorce settlement to pay college expenses, you will be forced to pay by the state by any means necessary.

        Its possible you could cap college to TUITION ONLY to 5000 a year in the divorce settlement. Using vague words in an agreement to words like “college expenses” could mean you pay everything from a car, 1000 a month abode, money allowance, tuition, books, and fees. Do not be vague in college payment language or a judge could add 100k to 200k in “extras” over 4 yrs, if you only want to pay some of juniors college

  63. The legal system here in the united stats is anti-male for sure. If your a father and the wife files for support, your screwed, and become nothing more then an employed and economic slave to the state and the x-wife who enjoys seeing you financially raped.

    1. RE: college costs – a warning for men .. a guy told me that his kid in university paid tuition with his funds, then obtained a refund, secretly, and didn’t actually go. The mom didn’t tell the guy. He fouind out by contacting the university.

    2. The only way to stop that for 100% sure is to never marry or have kids in an “anglo-sphere” country

  64. I loved this blog. It is very clear that mostly everyone here is full of anger, indignation and frustration. Venting and sharing our horror stories is good, but I have also been looking into how to change things. I’m not a lawyer or a politician, but something clearly needs to be done. I recently found a group of people who seem to be pretty dedicated to changing the law and/or suing individual states for violating constitutional rights, such as the freedom to choose your career. If you’re interested, check them out here:

    A quick summary on my story: I make 113K per year in the U.S. and got ordered to pay $48,600 per year to an ex (30K is alimony). She doesn’t work and has no plans to work ever. She poisoned my children with heavy parental alienation tactics and my older daughter won’t even talk to me. I’ve spent all of my time, energy and money fighting in court (on my 3rd lawyer now), but it is hopeless. The ex is relentlessly fighting for even more money, and she may actually get it.

    Like many others here, I’m beyond depressed, angry and frustrated. It is easy to understand why so many divorces end in suicide or murder. In any case, I have a dual-citizenship and have been thinking really hard about living the county. The only reason I haven’t yet is because I do have a 9-year old who still comes to my house and likes my company. I can’t bear the thought of her mom telling her that “dad ran away to another country and abandoned you”.

    Regarding the issue of child support, I’m “ok” with the idea of child support, but the problem is that it is way off base. In reality, child support doesn’t come even close to the real cost of raising a child. Instead, child support is a *major* profit center! Do you want to put most of the family court lawyers out of a job? Just change the law to a default 50/50 custody arrangement and make child support reasonable, based on real costs. In other words, remove the profitability from children.

    Again, I hope more of us can get involved and try to end this terrible slavery. Check the forum above. If you’re want to get even more pissed off, watch the “Divorce Corp” documentary.

  65. That amount is ridiculous, on top of her getting most of the belongings. I don’t blame him for leaving the country. Let

  66. Here’s one for ya’s….FMEP seized bank account , suspended Class 1 drivers licence (my main form of income)and truck insurance. And a lot more other crap. Finally went to court , and proved I’m the one owed over $9200. Daughter lives with me now for the last year, and was in court 2 months ago for a conference with the ex and judge , judge postpones case for 3 month no support to be paid to me and FMEP will not go and collect monies owed,,, Total scumbags.

  67. This blog and replies seem all American/Canadian. I’m an immigrant in the UK (now British), who’s sacrificed the better life in my developing but yet much more pleasant country of origin to nurture the love I found in UK. My problem however is that I’ve caught my wife researching divorce twice now. And she keeps giving endless signs that she’s not really into this marriage thing again. She’s not worked since she finished uni (we married when she’s still studying); I’ve been working (employed) part time and running my business full time. Not rich but pay the rent, bills, holidays, etc without fail. My main worry is: how do I live should we separate. We have a demanding child maintenance system here as well but not that unfair. I can easily steal my own kids and run away with them to where I can comfortably raise them with top class upbringing and education. (I’m educated to matters level with loads of professional certifications). But I can’t imagine my kids living without their mum and dad together.
    May seem totally out of what you were all discussing but any advise please?

    1. Scared Husband::

      Here’s my advice to you:

      1. From a financial perspective, if you know that your marriage will fail and it’s just a matter a time, it’s better do to it sooner than later, when you’re still making less money. I waited way too long, until I reached the top of my career to get a divorce, which resulted in absurd payments to the ex. Biggest mistake ever.

      2. From a child raising perspective, I’ve found, the hard way, that younger children do adapt much easier than older children. My 9 year old took the divorce relatively well, while my 13 year old was and still is crushed.

      3. Forget the ideal of taking the children and running away to another country. Most countries have sign the Hague convention and will extradite “kidnapped” children.

      4. For everyone: get involved and try to promote change. Sign petitions and/or support groups that advocate for 50/50 default child custody and the elimination of alimony based retirement.



  68. Appears the author is another vile feminist pig

    And this: “Ms. Mill’s alleged inability to work.” (A.k.a. laziness)


    Morally bankrupt courts should stop awarding custodies to lazy females who are unwilling to support even themselves, let alone children. If that man had received custodt this would not have happened.

    1. If you bothered to read a few other posts you would find that I actively lobby, speak and write in favour of shared parenting, speak and write against indefinite spousal support, decry unreasonably onerous child support, despise persons who make false allegations of sexual abuse, and have a sterling reputation as a female lawyer who does not believe all men are scum. I also believe the family justice system is in chaos and needs urgent reform. What are you doing to change the system? Posting anonymous insults? See my articles on Huffington Post, Postmedia, Lawyers Weekly, etc.

      1. LawDiva….Then please satiate everyone’s curiosity and address why you opened this thread with the clear inference that Mr Mills is ‘scum’ …when he is clearly being legally raped..? Please put forth a reasonable defence of this parisitic, shiftless ex-wife who drove him to take such extreme action…

  69. These men that leave the country to avoid supporting the children they created are nothing but Cowards. There is no reason what so ever a Real Man leaves his children, and over Money. Seems as though both the Wife and Husband are both selfish. Please tell me this a joke. No wonder the kids in this world have such issues and seek acceptance anyway they can get it. I have worked with older children for years who have suffered every kind of abuse but when you dig deep you see how the abandonment from their fathers is always the event that triggers the start of the emotional inner turmoil. Yes the courts are very unfair and Men for the most part are treated poorly but this is the most selfish and unforgiving thing a man can do to innocent children. Sorry but it would be only right if these kids reject them when their dads finally reach out to them.

    1. @Winston

      What a joke of a post. When Hans Mills got hit the the revised corrupt court order, he would have had to pay retroactive spousal support, lawyer costs from 2005, and his and Donna Mills lawyer for 2012. Paying 4000 a month CS+Alimony+retroactive support+layer fees would have left him with zero. Figure 50k retro spousal support plus arrears and lawyer fees. He would have been hit with at least 75k in the hole plus the 4k a month indenture. HE WOULD HAVE ZERO MONEY TO LIVE ON, EVEN IF HE PAID THE EXTORTION INDENTURE.

      If a man can’t pay for food or put a roof over his head, he sure as hell can’t be a father to his kids on zero money. If he stayed in Canada with the revised agreement, he would have been thrown in and out of jail within the year. We know how vindictive Donna Mills can be, since she tried to get the FRO to take away his passport in order to A$$ rape the guy for life long indenture. He would not have been able to see or have a relationship with his kids in this scenario anyway. Hans Mills does care for his kids and was up to date on his child support until leaving in Nov 2012. From the Star paper post, she has brainwashed the kids with deadbeat dad propaganda. No doubt she has “child alienated” the kids from Hans Mills. More fair to say Hans is a “beat dead dad” by the parasite FRO and the greedy vindictive mom.

      No matter what Hans Mills does, he is just a POS to you. He can do no right and has no right to move on and be happy in life.

      1.) If he stays in Canada and pays the indenture, he would soon not see his kids anyway (assuming Ms. Mills allows it) and end up homeless and harassed by her and the FRO for money. Eventually in and out of jail due to no money. So far Winston your the only hero implying to pay the 4k extortion plus fee, so the kids can live in a 1.2 million home. And you can live homeless. No doubt you will reply in obtuse fashion saying “for the kids” While this act is noble in saying it. Most people like yourself would not follow through and wimp out

      2.) He goes to the Philippines for a chance at life, other than being a paycheck for Ms. Mills. He can’t see his kids in this way either, but he is free from indentured servitude. At least he wont be in the poor house and see his kids one day. When the kids grow up, they will get his side of the story and hopefully reconcile. Or at the very least be on speaking terms.

      Winston if you want a better scenario for men like Hans Mills, stop condoning the extortion courts which cater to liars, lazy a$$es and deadbeats like Ms. Mills. THE MAN HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO RUN OR BE A PAYCHECK TO LAZY GREEDY EX UNTIL HE DIES

      Hans Mills is a hero in my book for standing up to the corrupt court and evil ex

    2. Winston…Stop being a Simp and a White Knight. I guarantee that you would do a full 180 degree turn…if you were subjected to this System! Most Dads do not want to abandon their Children. The Current Scheme destroys them financially, and lays waste to any chance of living normally again. So…out of desperation, they leave! Hoping that later on…they may re-connect under different and better circumstances. Their Exes would have probably engaged in Parental Alienation anyways…which is what I have been putting up with for 5+ Years now! BTW Winston. What quantifies you to decide what a (Real Man) or for that matter (Coward). Guys are fast learning now to Shrug Off the Shaming Language and Tactics that are too often used to manipulate and exploit them! You can brush it off now, all that you want. But until your Head ends up in the Noose like many of us here have, and you see for yourself what really goes on (Question Mark). No Winston…this is NO JOKE.

      1. Darrin G

        Man I don’t think anybody could have said that better that exactly without a doubt what it is. An person like Winston who never had to face the wrath of the child support system to only talk about how we are bad father. Believe me the wrath of this child support system will bring you down to you’re knees. Every word that Darrin G speaks is exactly what’s happened to me these. The female has to much power in the united states of America. If we are to survive this holocaust we must ban together





    3. YES MASSA! I’ll be a good ol’ slave from now on! Sorry Massa! I aint no uppity slave I tells ya! No it doesn’t matter that they took ma kids and shoved a gun in my face and demanded money – they’s the good uns in the story! I’ll work to pick more cotton massa! Promise!

  70. Guys, I have a question!
    We all know the consequences of not paying child support!
    What about not paying (as decided by the judge in trial) the x amount of money from your 401k or alimony IF (!) you are out of state? How will my ex squeeze me? What tools can she deploy IF I am in a different state? I need to evaluate my options …..

    Thanks to all of you!

  71. @Charlie

    I dont know how fast court orders are enacted for 401k. But it does not matter if you are in a different USA state should they know where your 401k plan is. Running state to state won’t help as the courts only need wire intercept at the source.

    It may be too late to save your 401k from the ex. If you can get out of the USA with 401k intact, so much the better

    If you quit the USA under those circumstances owing alimony debt, you can never return to the USA. Transferring money over seas could be an option for the 401k, if you can do this fast enough. Contact a lawyer in a foreign country and ask residency requirements and maybe get a fast tracked out of the USA.

    No doubt if I was paying forever Alimony, I sure as hell would run like Hans Mills

    Again it may be too late to save all your 401k. But I sure as hell would run from forever alimony and/or extortionate amounts of CS. If you can’t leave the USA quickly, save some cash and try to leave as soon as you are able

  72. I’m Mexican but I have always wondered what would happen to me if I marry an American woman, get an American passport (a free ticket to become a criminal) and then divorce and be required to pay alimony?
    Could I just move back to Mexico and ignore the American courts? What kind of pressure would I receive? Can they cease my assets and freeze my account in Mexico?
    I live very frugal, I currently work as a freelance and I don’t even pay taxes in Mexico, I don’t even know if I should under my freelance situation but the Mexican IRS is very incompetent and they don’t seem to care, I have never even received payment notices. Thus I wonder if I would ever could be forced somehow to pay alimony to a foreign English-speaking woman. Just out of curiosity. See, not having American citizenship is not all that bad.

    1. @K

      Any USA state can try to pursue an alimony or CS case in another country. With all the legal red tape, the results are generally not successful unless the country is on one of the lists for reciprocal agreements with the USA.

      The key is giving up your USA citizenship. You could go to a USA embassy in Mexico and renounce USA citizenship & possibly be stateless (citizen of no country) With the way Mexico runs, you could probably “buy” Mexico citizenship again or marry a Mexico national.

      There are no alimony or CS laws that I know about in Mexico. The court system and IRS there is very lax and doubt they would pursue you. In many countries Alimony and CS is not an extraditable crime, In most cases if you have citizenship in a foreign country with no reciprocal agreements with the USA, your assets and well being appear to be untouchable (like in Hans Mills Case)

      Once matters go international, the laws of that foreign land are paramount over any USA laws and many international laws.

      Not a lawyer and only putting in my 2 cents. Hope this will help someone 🙂

    2. Mexico is off limits to the USA for child support, and thank god. But remember this, you will never be able to go back to the USA.

  73. I am the loving partner of an exceptionally wonderful man, father, and former stay-at-home dad. He is currently being forced to live in abject poverty, not to mention subjected to parental alienation and almost daily harassment by his attorney ex (along with her attorney, who is her mother). This is all happening with the full knowledge and blessing of the IL, U.S. court system.

    I have been shocked by what I’ve seen him go through and appalled to discover that his is not an isolated case. I am a freelance writer and am working on a book about how the U.S. family court system is failing and crippling fathers.

    If you have a story to share, one that you can back up with evidence, please contact me with a summary at deadbeatenintosubmission@gmail.com. I will reach out to people down the road for interviews. All identifying information will be changed or omitted from the book and I am working with a lawyer to develop a contract specifying as much before I conduct interviews.

    While I sympathize with the Canadians, I am looking for US-based stories at this time.

    Please note that I am female and I understand some of you no longer trust my kind, understandably so. My partner has also expressed that he would also be willing to conduct interviews if you’d rather talk to a male (and one who has been through his own nightmare!)

    1. Kate Your book is sorely needed, as most people have no idea of the abuse and trauma visited on many fathers who only want to be a good parent. I am sure you will receive many responses. You may also wish to contact Leading Women for Shared Parenting, (LW4SP.com) a US non-profit that is doing amazing work in this area. Disclaimer: I am a member of LW4SP.

      1. Hi Georgialee, I have a friend in a similar situation as Andy. He is paying up to 40% of his gross earnings for child support and not making enough money to even pay his rent. He cannot afford to pay for a lawyer to challenge the court order but he is willing to pay when he gets a reduction on his garnishment order. Any advice for him?

      2. LawDiva…..Still awaiting your defense of Ms Mills…..till then, all your ‘above’ has the aire of hypocracy…

      3. Guys

        The more I looked at things the more I feel trapped. I live in the UK and it seems pretty similar. I can’t face the divorce way and to be strapped forever to a place I don’t like and to some one.

        Can you actually be extradited back to Europe for just running away from family.

        Any thoughts?

    2. Kate,

      I really admire your initiative. Thank you for doing this. I will contact you with my personal never-ending horror story.


  74. So as you can see, the female who wrote this article blames the man yet fails to see that he gave his EX 90% of his assets which she probably spent on clothes; she was given a 1.2 million house and says she won’t give up fighting for her children, well, can’t she just sell the mansion, move to a smaller house and live off the money difference? Can’t she work?

    Like always, they expect the man to do everything for them. This man would have ended with little over $2000 per month after paying child support and alimony, I think he made a good decision to let the bitch handle the burden of her stupid decisions, I don’t think the children will actually be living on the street like the author implies: If she manages her fortune well, works her ass as she should and even get help from the government (which she will) then why is she bitching? She ruined this man’s life, I would have done the same.

  75. I can’t say it any better than this:

    “So as you can see, the female who wrote this article blames the man yet fails to see that he gave his EX 90% of his assets which she probably spent on clothes; she was given a 1.2 million house and says she won’t give up fighting for her children, well, can’t she just sell the mansion, move to a smaller house and live off the money difference? Can’t she work?

    Like always, they expect the man to do everything for them. This man would have ended with little over $2000 per month after paying child support and alimony, I think he made a good decision to let the bitch handle the burden of her stupid decisions, I don’t think the children will actually be living on the street like the author implies: If she manages her fortune well, works her ass as she should and even get help from the government (which she will) then why is she bitching? She ruined this man’s life, I would have done the same.”

  76. Been a nasty 8 years in the USA with Obama the Osama and that horrible high deductable/cost of socialist Obamacare. That guy is a lazy liberal do nothing. He has remarked some things to effect of fathers need to do more and the courts need do better. Of course the Osama coward won’t do anything for fear of losing the female vote for Democrats

    Having been through the divorce court system twice, there might be a chance Trump (assume he wins) will do something about this Nazi court regime without over sight. People are fed up with this status quo with special interests running the show. The liberal politically correct media is spinning most negatively about Trump. It must mean those little boys are scared by what they can’t control and polls say he is winning

    Merely speculation if Trump wins and has Jesse Ventura as his running mate. Seems Trump has a good shot as people are tired of “same old, same old” do nothing established career politicians. Term limits would stop much of this.

    Hope the day comes when Trump say to all the court judges and worthless CS agents “you’re fired”

    1. If the democratic system actually worked, the US Congress wouldn’t have a 15% approval rating. No one you vote for isn’t corrupt or corrupted by the system, and no one who isn’t will get elected. Canada, New Zealand, etc not any better, as seen.

      At least in the past, one had certain rights, as in the Bill of Rights, which are only your rights as long as they are convenient for the government to let you have them. (e.g. Patriot Act, No-Knock Warrants, spying).

      Even the basis assumptions are flawed “The right to govern is granted by the consent of the governed.” Try withdrawing consent, and you will be imprisoned or murdered. The “social contract” concept is not a contract at all, since it is a “contract” under duress. Money rules the system, not rights, and the bloated bureaucracies benefit materially from the divorce/child-support industrial complex.

      I don’t know about the Canadian system, but in the past it was envisioned by some that the US system at some point in the future would grow corrupt and need to be toppled. The system is biased, corrupt, unfair, and well-equipped and financed on the back of those who do the work. The only realistic option a person has is to vote with their feet and leave the country, since voting in a booth is laughable.

    2. The Liberal media has a lower approval rating than the USA congress (11%) If the liberal media has problems with Trump its a good thing. The media is really an unofficial arm of the Democratic party

      Seems for the time being the system will need to extort more dads to pay for all those useless Syrian refugees. The great Obama is bringing Syrians in to legally get votes from the newest welfare recipients. Legally stuffing the voting box in the Democrats favor (not for the election in 2016) Those on the usa govt freebie dole outs vote Democrat overwhelmingly

      Emailed my state Democrat senator in 2014 (took 3 months to reply) and he stated more or less “if Title 4-d becomes a problem, he will be sure to bring the issue to congress.”

      Seems the extortion and corruption of the courts is not a problem in the USA? I think 50/50 parenting time and no money changing hands would be common sense and stop this racket!

  77. Well you see what happens when feminism is prioritized by bureaucracy and not egalitarianism. If children were really the priority of the court systems, they would enforce 50% physical custody. The real priority is socialism and enforcing a perverse gynocracy.

    The West is in decline. It was killed by greed, materialism, sexual promiscuity, gluttony (witness all the fat people) and moral relativism.

    I ask the feminists this question: if you crap on the men, do you still expect them to enthusiastically fight for you, when a less feminist culture like Islam starts to encroach? Heck, I’m an atheist and I’d probably switch sides and convert to Islam rather than fight for the people who want to enslave me.

    1. Not trying to waive topics from the main one over here, but guess what Robert, i’m a muslim and my ex wife were a muslim too (a muslim of birth, by name, by roots, i.e. Not a converted one) When we married, we married on the islamic shari’a and her father was a witness on that, but the wedding was on a US soil.

      But when it came to a divorce, it all became a $$ issue for the ex.

      The islamic shari’a covers and clearly defines everything already at the mattiage certificate, what the wife will get, the husban… etc whenever a divorve happens, God forbid.

      Well, i offered my ex way MORE than what we agreed upon already, but she sold her soul to the devil and abused the US system ; not only to get more, but to get everything.

      I literally stuggled for over 2 years when i left the US. But everything you do, will come back to you one way or another.

      It turned out i’ve made the good decision and i dodged that bullet.

      Now i’m married to a lovely real muslim gorgious wife, have a much better job than the US one and things could’ve never been better for me.

      Justice; my friend, has to be served in this life or in the afterlife; else nothing will ever make any sense.

      1. If I may ask, which country did you end up going to?

        I have completed my equipment list (very specific now, I just copy & paste link then click “add to cart”) I’m currently figuring out a time table of things to do before leaving in Excel (which starts with 1st date of not paying the mortgage and ends with the plane flight).

        I’m considering places where the central government and prying eyes are not as obtrusive, such as Northern Iraq (the Kurdish areas) but away from where ISIS is operating. A last resort would be caves, such as are in the Zagros mountains north of Sorani, but I’m first considering the abandoned villages closer to the Turkish border, preferably where the PKK is not operating. I’d bring enough gold (purchased by credit card) to pay for 20-25 years of food, costing in that area about $1800/yr and move into an abandoned building in an abandoned village, but within close enough range of a small city like Sorani.

        That would be my retirement. I’d have a few things to entertain me: writing implements, chessboard, my complete work of Shakespeare book, and an ocarina. I will have enough equipment to hunt and fish on top of the occasional city market visit, so I’m more concerned with forms of entertainment.

        Are there any good areas in the region (between Morocco and India) besides where I’m considering that would be good for laying low in on the minimal budget I am bringing with me? (only enough for food & replacement clothing long term)

  78. It is Hans Mills that is “morally bankrupt”.

    No, he is not. You want the kids (and get the home), you pay the costs. Kids want to stay with their Mom, they should rely on her.

    “I am a woman” justification is bs and I do not give crap to it.

  79. @Robert, you have my deepest sympathy. There is always a light by end of the dark tunnel.

    Looks like you have done your research, well-done your homework & already put a plan altogether. But this doesn’t mean it’s a good plan to execute.

    The circumstances and traveling conditions are different, and can vary from one to another. I mean, my case can be very different from yours, and sorry as I cannot tell where I reside at the moment.

    I managed to secure another citizenship. I have had some good friends (through old connections) who kindly hosted me for the first few months. I have a college degree. I spent countless on-line hours hunting for jobs in my major (been jobless for over three months when first arrived). I have moved between different countries looking for a good fit.

    To me, your plan sounds like a suicide plan. I never been into Iraq and not sure how things are there nowadays. I assume you’ve been in military and already knew the area. And; IMHO, I don’t think Syria or the Turkish borders are good options; especially with all refugee camps and military conflicts.

    I can tell you that, It won’t be easy, you’ll struggle at first but once you fit in, everything will be good.
    The questions that should be added in your homework and clearly answered in your plan are like:
    Where would I go when I first arrive?
    How long do I need to stay there?
    Do I know people in that area?
    What should I do the first 3-6 months?
    How can I look for jobs in that area?
    Is it gonna be my final destination or Am I going to move somewhere else?
    How to manage my travel needs? Is there a 2nd passport in hand? If not, How long is my current passport valid for?
    And most importantly, how to get a job? You can’t simply rely on the saving you have forever.

    I sense that you were misjudged, suffered from a complete injustice. Don’t you think this has a reason behind the seen? I’m not a religious or anything. But don’t you think everything happens for a reason, and your story has a good one? I would wonder if I were you, and start believing that there has to be a justice somewhere, and tyrannous, oppressive people cannot go away with it forever, even after death. There is no way and it doesn’t even make any sense to me.

    Anywho, Gulf area is the best I would say if you managed to get a job there (linkedIn can be a good start) Jordan (Amman) is becoming a modern city. Also, Egypt is not a bad place at all. Tunisia is very friendly. These countries always seek English speakers who has no college degree, where a job can be found in tourism, 5 star hotels, decent restaurants.. etc.

    1. REPLY TO M1

      Robert smith and M1 I am very interested in speaking with you both about how you left the usa and how you are going to leave the usa.

      These are by far the best post I yet to have come across. M1 you have already left the united states of America and secured a new citizenship.

      I am in desperation right now I need this too I need guidance where to go how to get anolthner citizenship. How to find a job.

      If you’re not comfortable talking through this post for fear this bastards will hunt you down like an animal.

      We can speak through email or phone I prefer phone I have many questions to ask you.

      1. Well, the wife has been out and about while am at work having sex with some guy she met on Facebook. Charmingly, she went out and took the kids to the zoo (with him). Men are replaceable (but not their wallets). I did however, manage to send a text message to another guy she has been screwing mentioning to him that she is just playing him and that she is seeing some other guy now.

        I am leaving work a little early while she is out today (with the guy), to take the first step which is to get my fingerprinting done on the 258-1 Federal form, so I can turn in a 1-783 request for CJIS investigation. (I will only go to the Middle East as a fallback if primary attempt fails) My first goal is to the paperwork so I can get a residency in Latin America… the real estate there can be CHEAP and food can be had in the markets for $3/day.

      2. CHiLd SuPpOrRt SlAvE :

        Just keep this in mind, when both posting to the Internet and using the Internet… “Loose lips, sink ships”. (it was true during WWII and it is true now)

        If you DO use the internet for research, make sure that once you’ve picked a target country, that you research other countries in the same detail, so. If and when you travel to that country, make sure to cover your tracks. For example, if you were going to settle upon Guatemala as a country to go to, you would research other countries online like Mexico, Belize, Nicaragua, etc. Then when you fly out there each time, charge a plane flight to Mexico (a larger “haystack” than Guatemala) on your credit card. Then use cash to take a bus to Guatemala. It would be even better for example, if you already had a second passport from Mexico.

        If your ex or authorities come looking for you, they would be looking in Mexico and not Guatemala. If you want to vanish, just keep in mind that a larger haystack has its advantages ( Brazil, China, India, etc) Also, language proficiency. If you are going to study languages, make sure your choices are broad (for example Arabic covers many countries, and Spanish covers many countries). You could for example study both Spanish and Portuguese, start setting up in a country bordering Brazil, and then do something like get an Investor VISA in Brazil (costs $65,000 USD)

        Also, bigger countries like Brazil and China are less likely to be intimidated by the US. In Brazil, an advantage is that it is racially diverse, with everything from blond/blues to African mixes. You won’t stick out like a sore thumb.

        Also, as a last resort, have a failsafe fall back position… in my case, the Middle East. (Spanish Sahara and Northern Iraq are two examples)

  80. Years ago women were at the mercy of what their ex-husband’s wanted to pay them, now the tide has turned so drastically that we are making men pay a ridiculous amount of money for compensatory support (bullSt) in my mind, often leaving them with little to nothing for themselves. What about their lives? A colleague of mine currently is being told by his lawyer that out of a $6000 monthly take home he could be paying his ex (whose new spouse earns $185,000 year) $4500 PLUS child support per month – leaving him with $1000 month!? HELLO. Ex lives in a $700,000, takes multiple trips a year, has a horse….etc., etc. and this man lives in his parents basement. What the hell happened here?

    So my question is what can we do NOW to change the ridiculous case laws that encourage judges to uphold past mistakes? What happened to WOMEN’S INDPENDENCE? This sets back women’s liberation about 75 years.

    Ladies grow up, take responsibility for yourself.

    1. Normally I look towards statistics over anecdotes, but I have heard more than enough anecdotes about women who are into horses being crazy. Not just routinely crazy, but bat s**t crazy. If you are a guy, and you are dating someone who has paintings of horses throughout the house, dinner plates and china with horses on them, don’t date them seriously, don’t plan to marry them, and double check your condoms for pin holes.

      Better yet, just back away from them slowly.

      Babyon 5 quote: “I’ll tell you one thing. If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they’d have stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea! Hell, I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated!”

      The system profits from the ridiculous laws. You are fighting against two things: women who wield the “Ring of Gyges” to serve themselves, and the system of lawyers, courts, judges, bureaucrats that materially profits from divorce (divorce/child support industrial complex).

      You might as well have asked the Southern plantation owners to voluntarily give up their slaves. At best a few people might display a conscience, but not enough. The smart men respond with running away, rather that be put on the whipping post. Its not “morally bankrupt” to run away from a system that is morally bankrupt itself. People always expect you to fall on your sword or be “honorable”. Ever notice how in “Game of Thrones” — the most honorable people (like Ned Stark) die the soonest — trying to be “honorable” while dealing with dishonorable people is being a chump.

      Sometimes its best to just walk away from darkness, which brings to mind another quote from Babylon 5, one from the technomage to Londo. “You are touched by darkness, Ambassador. I see it as a blemish that will grow with time. I could warn you of course, but you would not listen. I could kill you, but someone would take your place. So I do the only thing I can–I go.” Neither violence nor futile attempts to reform the system will work–the system isn’t interested in listening.

      My own plan is to do the only thing *I* can… I go.

      1. @Robert Smith
        The red flags that I’ve noticed in women are:

        – women with horses
        – women with more than two earrings in each ear (especially the ones with five or more)
        – women with tattoos on their faces or necks or tattoos that are bigger than a square inch anywhere else
        – women with short-short hair (defined as being as short as Donald Trump)

  81. Guys,

    I’m very interested in hearing from people who left the country, but also left their loved children behind. Were you ever able to get over the pain/guilty of leaving them? Were you able to maintain contact, even though you may have an evil ex who hates your guts? Were you able to reconnect after they grew up, maybe?

    I’m paying more than 4K per month in alimony and child support. The ex is fighting for more and I’m reaching my breaking point financially and emotionally. I already have a dual-citizenship and would have left a long time ago if it wasn’t for my two daughters. The older one has been completely brainwashed (parental alienation syndrome) and won’t even talk to me. However, the younger one still really loves my company, even though I only have her 35% of the time.

    I don’t know what’s worse: Be my ex’s slave for the next 12 years, or leave my children behind…

    1. Well if the younger one is 6, I would think she doesn’t yet possess enough language skills for parental alienation syndrome to be a factor… yet. The operative word being here is “yet”. I would expect your ex to eventually turn the 6 year old against you (she has years to work on that). In this society, your children aren’t really yours… men are just sperm donors (except with strings attached), operating at the whim of whether or not the “wife” wants to leave you for the bigger, better deal. I’m telling my 17-yr old son to stay single and if he ever wants a kid, to save up the money for surrogacy ($100,000 to $150,000) or adopt… if he can’t afford that, he can’t afford marriage and divorce, either. Best damn lesson I’ve ever taught him.

      Face the fact that you live in a society that only values you as a piggybank and not as a person, and that extends to the legal system and women. (Just look at how the US government goes after Americans working overseas for taxes, even dual citizenship people, with nothing to do with divorce or child support … constant “rent-seeking” behavior — and the hilarity of it is fiscal irresponsibility to the tune of $205 trillion in unfunded liabilities)

      Neitzche said that “he who fights dragons long enough, becomes a dragon”. The US fought against the USSR in the Cold War for nearly 5 decades. I remember being a teenager and hearing Ronald Reagan describing the USSR as an evil empire. The US fought an evil empire long enough to become an evil empire itself. (Just look at how even the police look like storm troopers, with armored vehicles, etc)

      The smart thing to do is to realize what the US has become, find a way out, and then leave. (since you have dual citizenship, renounce your US citizenship at the US embassy in that country, there is a Federal form to fill out and a $300 charge. (see, they even get you on the way out!)

    2. Also, do your research… some countries (not that many) have reciprocal child support arrangement agreements with the US, mostly (but a few non-) European countries.

  82. My 13-year old has been fully brainwashed with PAS and won’t even talk to me. However, my 9-year old still loves coming to my house and spending time with me. As much as I would LOVE to hear that my ex is actually being forced to apply for a job after loosing her private welfare (alimony), I don’t think I would be able to get over the guilty of abandoning my daughter…

    We need more people to fight against this system. Making people decide between their freedom and their children is just too cruel!!! Some states have achieved miracles such as 50/50 custody. In Indiana, alimony cannot usually exceed 3 years! After that, the lazy $!@#$ has to work.

    1. @GP

      Indiana is one those college pay states. I believe you will be forced to pay college plus CS until the age of 21 years. This assumes your kids will go to college. With greedy vindictive Exes being the way they are, you can be sure she will try to keep the money rolling in as long as possible. The CS will go to the Ex to spend as she pleases. The college pay is supposed to be split 50/50 with you and the ex. It rarely seems to be 50/50 and more like 80/20 if you are lucky

      I’ve read cases in Indiana with judges throwing in a car, gas money, insurance, rent, books, computer, cell as part of college expenses on top of the tuition and CS. It depends on the judge if he/she throws all this in

  83. I walked away from the UK divorce court, the “family” system is just as pathetic there. Faced with the prospect of not seeing my boy and being financially raped or not seeing him and having a life. I didn’t have any assets in the jurisdiction, so I just walked away.
    The system in Canada is as much a failure as it is in UK. It has failed the children miserably.
    When faced with a viscously vindictive and greedy ex, and the so obviously bias court systems I am surprised that more don’t walk out and move away.
    I put money away for my child for when he comes of age. His mother and new partner both have 6 figure incomes. My boy will be okay, but sadly wont know his Dad or the truth until he hopefully seeks it in later life.

    1. Billy,

      Where you very close to your boy when you left the UK? If yes, how did you handle the pain? Also, what country did you end up going to? With the Hague convention treaties, many people are afraid of being hunted down at the new country…

      1. GP,

        My boy was not yet 3 years old when I made the tough decision to exit the game. It was made easier for me I guess as my ex had denied access to my boy for one and a half years, or basically since her huge financial demands began via the courts and lawyers.
        Everyone’s story is different and in my case I had not lived in my country of birth for 15 years. I did however give up a lucrative job overseas to participate in our agreed shared care and cost of our boys upbringing and return to my country. Of course the agreement was not kept as soon as lawyers became involved and my ex found a new partner.
        At first I was in turmoil, of course I was. I think about my boy every day and wonder if I did the right thing.
        I have now moved on and live in Asia. I have a good contract, nice house, new girlfriend and we live very well. I had the full support of my family and my girl has been very supportive.
        I’m not in a country that has a REMO agreement so I will be okay for now.

  84. “$2235.00 for the children and $1537.00 for his wife.”??? Who pays that much for their kids a month and why can’t she get a job and become a productive member of society?!?

    I sympathize with the fathers in these posts as I am also in your shoes – an ex wife that only works part time, doesn’t have to pay for medical insurance for our kids (I cover it), has grandma pay for the kids extracurricular activities, doesn’t use the In-Network dentists or vision specialists, goes dancing and drinking on the weekends, receives support from me already….and now is wanting more money – three times the amount!! I have my own mortgage to pay, my own bills to pay, student loans (which I put myself through school after we were divorced), worked my way up the ranks in the IT field (after we were divorced), and yet I am being told by the OAG’s office that since I am the non-custodial parent, I am the one who has to pay. Ignore the fact that she has done nothing to change her lifestyle since her divorce but yet I have to change mine all the time to accommodate her. We are not “dead beat” dads, we are just mentally and financially abused to the point where are are backed into a corner….something is going to give eventually. This is entirely the courts fault – they are not fair nor impartial when it comes to the non-custodial parent (90% of the time that’s the father).

  85. I am a female and I am sickened by this disgusting family law court system. It is all for men and how hard to screw them. My fiancé was separated 10 years ago. This troll took him for everything. He s ordered to pay over 10,000 a month in spousal/ child support and all there activitys,cloths ect. He only can afford to pay 7000 a month which obviously leaves us broke. Because he only pays 7000 a month he has lost his licence,lost his passport we can’t buy a house or anything. He left that fat lazy troll with the house and she drives two cars and we have one car between us. He does not see his children and of course she blames it on him. It’s his fault. We have a little boy together and can barely survive,we can’t get married because she won’t divorce him and the court won’t allow the divorce until he pays the back pay. Which there is no money to pay back pay. The worst part is this stupid bitch complains to the court that she can’t survive off 7000 a month !!! There are sick people out there. My fiancé is severely depressed and hardly can function. We are thinking of leaving the province and never returning. It’s sad for the children but we have to live our lives.

    1. Sounds like a very familiar story. My boyfriend is left with nothing to live on and still can’t make all of his court ordered payments. The judge ordered him to look for a better paying job rather than adjust his support payments according to what he does make, rather than working with the job he loves, that pays more than he’s ever made and is perfectly in line with his education, our part of the country and his contribution in the marriage – he was a stay at home dad so his ex could work. She’s an attorney, natch. And I, with a more advanced degree and a killer resume, only make $4 per hour more than he does, and I could never afford his child support, so I don’t know what kind of job he’s supposed to find.

      We both are pretty much living off my income AND buying clothes for the kids cuz the ex wife with her Juris Docterate doesn’t know how to pack appropriately when we have them. I’m afraid we’ll never be able to afford to have a family of our own.

    2. Yep…I’m in nearly similar circumstances. Can’t afford to pay…and career destroyed by her vexacious charges. I’m trying to figure out how this person can’t live on $7000? The average Canadian Family thrives on about $3000/Month. and that is more than double! FRO and the Family Courts really need their Butts kicked swift and hard!

  86. This same sick heavily-skewed-towards-the-woman family court system is happening in Singapore, which has a strong Woman’s Charter to back it up. In my case, my ex-wife is qualified and can work but conveniently quit her job just before the divorce, was rewarded handsomely by the court who overlooked this and I ended up paying over 70% of my net takehome pay to her and the children.

    Basically family court judges go very easy on the woman and very harsh on the man because it is much easier to justify and be seen to be supporting the “weaker” sex. This is so out of touch with the current environment where women can earn a decent income, often as much and sometimes more than men these days.

    I am all in support of reform in the family court system in Singapore and in most English speaking countries, especially in areas like indefinite ex-wife support where she is clearly qualified to work but clearly abusing the system and the family courts allow it to happen. She’s been jobless for almost a year and the way the court supports her, there is defintely no incentive to find a job.

    1. Which countries could I go to to live and be safe while getting a job?

      After a very long and expensive divorce the judge ignored all evidence and pretty much awarded my ex-wife everything.

      What countries can I move to to be safe and be able to start life over again?

      Any contacts abroad is appreciated to speak with.

      I was told Costa Rica or France are possible options.

      Let me know


  87. I have noticed that many countries have reciprocal agreements with the USA as do individual States. Most of those countries are English speaking as well. It seems like most posters here are single and have stayed single after getting hosed with child support.

    What about moving to one of the reciprocating English speaking countries and continuing to pay the court ordered child support in an effort to stay out of trouble not because I agree with it?

    I’d like to become less of a target for upward modifications as time goes on. What happens if you are no longer able to pay but stay in that country never to return to the USA?

    Does each country really enforce the order and what do they do…or are some more passive than others?

    1. You can. You easily can. However, modifications can happen without your knowledge, accumulated Unpaid CS can block your passport from getting renewed, and you most likely will be stuck with nowhere to go.
      I’ve said it before. The TRICK is to get another citizenship. I’ve done it with my non-US passport, and I was in London last month with no issues at all.

    2. A reciprocal country will enforce an order & will seize your bank accounts or garnish your wages. However you have to be found first which means stay off Facebook and other social media…. You can also be found from a paper trail … The debt will remain against you until it is repaid.

  88. Ok M1, thanks for your thoughts.


    1) How does one get another passport in an English Speaking “1st world” country without lawfully residing in the country for a substantial period of time and obtaining citizenship…on average that time period seems to be about 5 years? In my last post I mentioned that most people seem single here, but forgot to expand on *why* I brought this up. I have a new wife and kids. If I was single, I’d go just about anywhere. With a family, European English speaking countries are my highest preference so the whole family doesn’t have to learn another language! I am not considering non-European English speaking countries for reasons beyond the scope of this post. If I am pushed against the wall though, we’d learn another language etc.

    2) Do you or anyone know how reciprocating countries might treat stateless people if they just can’t keep up with child support payments and their US passport is not renewed or even revoked (see below comments) leaving them stateless? Would the US extradite? Would the country you are in extradite?


    It is funny that you mention the UK. I lived in the UK in the past…legally immigrated with my new UK citizen wife before they made is so difficult (now it is next to impossible to do legally starting in 2012).

    While in the UK, I went and did the “right” thing or so I thought by getting one of my new kids a US Passport at the US Embassy. This caused my US Passport to be revoked on the spot for being over $2500 in arrears. *Fair Warning*

    Mind you, this while I was actually *paying* my child support and getting the arrears down. I left the USA for the UK because I couldn’t find a job where I lived and the revocation of my passport actually cost me my job in the UK…the job that was paying down child support!!

    Seems to me that they’d rather not see you working and paying, but in jail.

    The US Embassy offered me a one way passport to return to the USA…and I took them up on it because I didn’t know the answer to Question #2 above and I didn’t trust anyone to answer it for me at that time.

    It has been a no hope situation for me since my daughter was born. I have never even met my daughter in 17 years but I am forced to pay child support for my entire life…..yes not 18,19, 21, 23, or 25…life. I won’t get into it on this forum, but will only say that my daughter is perfectly normal and has no physical or disabilities. The corrupt judge allows this to happen since she knows the judge very well. The judge still refuses to recuse himself, and I have used every lawyer in town to fight this, but I am now flat broke!

    I am done trying to fight this scenario in an obviously corrupt scenario/situation.

    My wife being a UK/EU citizen opens up a slew of options, but I don’t see how to get past the passport scenario especially when my US Passport is scheduled to expire in 2 years and anything can happen to stop my child support payments between here and then….which could easily push me over the $2500 threshold for cancellation/revocation.

    Thanks for any more insight!!

  89. For the US Readers… You might find this helpful. I’m not 100% sure on the accuracy, but the source link is also provided.

    Regarding Divorce Law ( or money judgements ) with people from outside the US. Enforcement comes from whats called “Reciprocal Agreements”

    The United States has reciprocal agreements with several foreign countries for the enforcement of child support orders through the Secretary of State. Currently, the United States has treaties with Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, Ireland, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal and Slovak Republic regarding the enforcement of child support orders. The United States also has similar agreements with Austria, El Salvador, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Israel, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

    The Office of Child Support Enforcement also assists states and countries with the enforcement of international child support orders. It assists the United States Department of State with negotiating and implementing foreign reciprocating countries and provinces and the most recent international Hague treaty for child support. The United States currently has 26 such foreign reciprocating countries and provinces that it has arrangements with.


    It would also be helpful for you to learn about the Hague Convention on the International Recovery of Child Support and Other Forms of Family Maintenance across borders.

    Under the Hague Convention the US and Canada, long partners and allies who cooperate in social issues cross borders and have for years, have access to each other’s data bases of income, social security, immigration, tax records and far more than the average citizen realizes. it should be possible once a case is opened to collect from this man through tax refunds due in addition to any consequences meted out in court.

    Be mindful that there are law firms who specialize in services based on enforcement of foreign judgments. It is costly, but they do exist. If a list does does exist of countries that do not participate in the above mentioned policies I suggest you find it, and read it over thoroughly.

    On a side note… Some women do not consider debt to be their problem, but the problems for men they can exploit. They will in-fact leverage other men to manage their debts. It’s conceivable to think that they will gladly go into debt to maintain the upper-hand over your affairs in a life-long power-play.

    Most men would gladly support their children as long as they can take the cash out of the hands of their frivolous mothers, and into something more manageable such as store-account cards at the local grocer, clothier, or home-goods stores where the support-money can ONLY be redeemed for food, clothes, or household items.

    If you want to carry on support as-usual without being extorted by the courts this is an excellent and easy alternative when living abroad.

    1. Fair Justice Solutions…your post made lots of sense to me except for the last part:

      “Most men would gladly support their children as long as they can take the cash out of the hands of their frivolous mothers, and into something more manageable such as store-account cards at the local grocer, clothier, or home-goods stores where the support-money can ONLY be redeemed for food, clothes, or household items.”

      I think that most men would rather *NOT* support their children when the woman does not allow the Father to see their child. You will find that men are FAIR when the game is FAIR.

      Forcing a child out of your life legally and getting you to pay for that disservice is hardly FAIR.

      When you can never see your child again, the child is NOT YOURS any more regardless of political posters and infomershals that men are brainwashed with. If a mother wants to take a child completely out of a father’s life because she thinks that she can do it all, then she should ACT like it and support her children COMPLETELY (which includes financially).

      In fact, in some western countries, the status qo is if you don’t see your kid you don’t pay support and vice versa. Of course this is not official, but reality. Never being able to see your kid is bad enough, but you shouldn’t be forced to pay for a mother doing that to you. The USA considers the matters to be separate unless it harms the father. Most USA judges get this, so they keep your visitation (even quasi visitation) just enough so that you continue to pay the court ordered child support.

      Child support and visitation ARE really related in the USA:

      What kind of visitation will you have when you are sitting in jail for failing to pay child support?

      How will you visit your child if your driver’s license is suspended for failure to pay child support and there is no public transportation?

      So there is a clear relationship between the two.

      “If you want to carry on support as-usual without being extorted by the courts this is an excellent and easy alternative when living abroad.”

      That sounds ok on the surface, but remember you’d have to do this on top of paying your court ordered child support amount unless you are able to convince a judge to specifically allow this arrangement in lieu of cash in hand (especially when the mother will be there fighting for her cash in hand in the already biased court room) would be like winning the lottery. Heck, I couldn’t even get the judge to correct a typo without screaming at me. The request for accountability has been fought for many years now to no avail so I can’t see one man having the ability to come up with his own arrangements in lieu of child support. Even when men get accountability there is a much bigger problem. The idea of child support itself. Most men would rather spend half the time with their child and in turn not pay child support. That is common sense.

      Besides…..who has the money to pay child support plus engage in such a program if you are to be compliant with the court ordered child support? Most people wouldn’t given the generally lower wages overseas and sometimes unfavorable exchange rates.

  90. I have been dealing with the same thing, the worst part is during my divorce the attorney for my ex-wife approached me with a one sided outrageous offer before the trail and said it was a good offer and that he knows this judge and that he does not like shared custody or fathers with custody, I said no, I wanted more time with my daughter because I raised her from birth to 5 years old with no help from her mother, but of course during the divorce she all of a sudden wants her, anyway, we get to the end and just before the judge makes his ruling he says in open court “I have known him for many years (meaning her attorney), so why would I believe anything you say over him” at that moment I knew I was screwed. He handed down the same exact offer her attorney made. They also had my passport confiscated as they knew I had work overseas. So now I have trouble working, they take everything they can, and constantly harass me.

    Now my ex-wife has left the country with my daughter with no return date and now will not answer any messages or let me and my daughter speak.

    I will give you guys a hint, plead with the other governments, especially if you have desirable skills, and they will protect you. I have been approved for protection from my North American government by a rival government, the only caveat is that I must make it there first. So, I have put together a plan, I am only missing one piece of my puzzle. Something that a Canadian could help me with. I need someone with a seaworthy boat or small plane and a day or two of their time and I am FREE!

    I can then also in return help others. A sort of underground railroad for men who have been abused by the court system. Trust me, you will like the places that I have access to and friends in. Same level of living but greater freedom than here.

      1. Sure, do you use Social Media? I have facebook, vk (preferred since it is hosted by Russia), I use viber also, then we could get more personal avenues of communication.

  91. Anyone know which countries are safe and which are not? Costa Rica? France? Italy? UK? I am Canadian. I was told that they should not have an Extradition treaty with Canada. The judge in my situation ignored all the evidence and gave my ex-wife and her lawyer everything plus double monthly child support, plus $40,000 in legal costs to my ex wife, plus $30,000 for additional child support, plus a $100/day fine if I don’t get all the money to my ex-wife by December 31, 2015. I supported my wife to get a masters degree and when she finished we agreed for myself to finish my education. Instead she locked me out of the house, has the children 90% of the time, slandered me so I could not be successful in my “new” financial advisor career and when my financial situation got bad I lost my licenses and can no longer be a financial advisor. Also the divorce took 7 years of endless battles which the judges always made judgements in favour of my ex-wife. All this took 7 years. Final judgement ended only a month ago. All they had to say was I was purposely underemployed so I got imputed an income much higher than I actually made. Even after showing them I lost everything in regards to my business. Now I am unemployed, no formal education, about to lose everything while my ex-wife makes $100,000/year and is now going to all my overnights away while requesting another $10,000 in legal costs. There is so much more as well. Problem is the judge always give them what they want. Unless I do something soon. I will be broke and bankrupted with almost no options. I can not appeal either. Leaving the country with what I have seems the only logic choice but I need help. I have made steps to do this already but how do I make an income? Where to go? I am even thinking of starting a business helping people with this problem but first I need to help myself and get educated. Thank you

    ps. I have no criminal record, no addictions, no mental (psychological) issues, not abusive, in the beginning I helped with my children everyday (I got endless compliments with how I was with my children). I am just a good man who wants a normal life and a relationship with my children but I feel forced to flee :(((((((((((((((

    1. Ceili, Stay away from any EU countries, they will hand you over! Or at least on go to the more eastern ones where they do not agree with this form of modern economic and social slavery.

      1. Someone I know said he knows someone who went to France and they protect him but not sure if this is true.

  92. Dudes, wounded fathers, and victims of the American Family Law Cartel. If you are going to leave the country, don’t go to any of the countries listed in the following link:


    If you go there, they can hunt you down and enforce the American court’s decision. Some American ass kissing countries, such as Canada and the EU are very good at enforcing the treaty with little effort from the petitioner.

    Before you go, however, please consider that we need warriors to change the system. Believe me, I know how overwhelming, depressing, and discouraging the whole thing is, but if we don’t fight for what’s right, who will? By “fight”, I don’t mean trying to fight within the current f***ed up system, but to try to change it. That means setting up local and national groups to work at the legislation level.

    Common sense steps:
    1. 50/50 custody by default.
    2. Removing the “profitability” element from child support. As long as they continue to be little bags of money, it’s hopeless.
    3. Alimony should always and only be re-rehabilitative. If you can’t get you shit together within 3 years, then maybe you are not an adult and shouldn’t be a parent.

    Whatever decision you make, you have my deepest sympathy and understanding. I myself often wonder if I have the strength to keep going…


  93. I have been separated with my ex-wife and 4 girls since 2011. I am in Canada and makes about $110k per year. I pay about $2450 for child support, plus $800 of extra expenses, and another $750 of spousal support (indefinitely), a total of $4000 per month over the last few years. I gave her the house (probably worth over $700k by now), the SUV, and an apartment back at her home country (probably worth over $50k). I gave her all these in hope that she would make peace with me and eventually settle for a little less in the future. I have been dipping into my credit line over the last few years to make ends meet. But I am at the end of the road now, and soon to be bankrupt. I tried to plead with the ex to get her to understand I can’t keep paying like this. I asked her that since I gave her my half of the house & apartment and had paid her support for over 3 years already that she would stop asking for spousal support. She would not give me a single break. I asked that she put in a limit on how long she will received spousal support (currently I will need to keep paying until she die or remarry). I asked that she reduce the extra expenses if possible, even by just $200 less. She would talked about it, even have me think that she would consider these requests. I have tried numerous times over the past few years, I have begged, I have tried to reason with her, but she would refused at the end. Even the last 3 months when she agreed to give me a $600 break, she now say that it is money on loan. I am scare to death to piss her off because she once came to my place with the children and destroyed the condo (I rented). I really wanted to do the best for my children and hated any thoughts that I would do anything to take them away from their mother. I had refrain going to court with her because it would cost me money that I don’t have, and cause havoc with my children’s life. But I am at the breaking point. Either I go bankrupt and keep owing support money for the rest of my life or go to court in hope of getting a better deal, or may be nothing works out then packing my bags and leave the country. Hearing what others saying about the court here really isn’t giving any hope what so ever. And I can’t afford a lawyer to take me through this. Leaving the country and not see my girls ever again is going to shred my heart to pieces. Is there any hope for me?

    1. Yes there is hope KK. Have you ever heard about any of “divorcing psychopaths” stories? Your ex is a serious psychopath. A very dangerous one (no sympathy, no empathy, no remorse, no feel of guilt, no concise, faking love, lazy, never taking any responsibility, they can never be wrong, and if they are, it’s always someone else fault, they are financial abusive, loves drama, and im pretty sure she uses the girls against you).

      I’m gonna save you some time and give you this hint; these is NO way (not in a million years) you would be able to settle with her. The psychopaths enjoys watching the pain they cause, do not expect her to cooperate. If she ever did, watch out your back because it’s a trap.
      It’s unfortunate to tell that the only and best way to deal with psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists IS to RUN. Run as fast as you can and never look back.

      For the girls, i feel your pain because i have been in your shoes. May God be always with you and give you the strength.

      1. Thanks M1. Leaving may allow me to get a new life, but my hardest obstacle to taking that step is leaving my girls. I am not sure what is better. Living in poverty or not seeing my girls. God help me!

      2. It’s the hardest thing I have ever done. But was made easier by my ex who had totally ruined my relationship with my kids aided by the “family” court system.
        I now have a new life, new partner and look forward to living a good life.
        I put money away for my kids and I hope that they will seek out the truth of what happened when they grow up. One day I am sure the system will change and all of the people involved in the injustice that our children have been dealt will hang their heads in shame. From the “professionals” making money from the system to the mothers milking it.
        Until then do whatever it takes to live your life.
        It’s not easy to take off but its worth it. Just plan it and do it. Get all of your assets out of reach and then tell them all to kiss your ass.

      1. No country will extradite you for non-payment of a foreign support order (assuming you’re not a criminal). However, a country can “enforce” a foreign support order if they are part of the treaty I mentioned in my previous posts.

        Costa Rica rocks and would be #1 on my list. Panama would be a close second place, as it has a very low cost of living.

        As I say every time though, don’t forget about the option of changing the local law. A print shop worker started and successfully reformed the alimony law in Massachusetts. Florida is almost there too. Other states will follow if we have the right people with the right amount of dedication working on it.

      2. I have information and contacts in Costa Rica so if anyone needs help let me know.

      3. I know other people who might consider Costa Rica, let’s discuss this in more detail. How do I contact you?

      4. My posting did not seem to work. If anyone needs help I have contacts in Costa Rica.

      5. But, that is exactly what I explained. That it is federal law that if you leave the country and do not pay support then they charge you with a federal level crime and therefore issue a warrant for your arrest making you appear as a criminal, not to mention the state would have already issued one for you also. Then, if by chance they do find you and ask for your return, there is a chance you will be turned over since you are wanted for criminal charges.

        I would not waste my time trying to change the law, too many welfare queens and greedy women who only use the support as a way to inflict harm against the ex, plus it takes money, of which they already take all of it so there is none left to fight. The system can burn for all I care at this point.

  94. I am Canadian but I assume the same. What countries do you suggest? I rather not be in the Philippines or someplace like that. A friend told me he had a friend a few years ago go to France.

  95. MEXICO COULD BE A GOOD OPTION: If you guys are willing to be an elementary school teacher for an English based school in Monterrey Mexico (industrial capital of Mexico, 5 million people city) I can get you an interview. I am Mexican Canadian, and I am sure the Mexican authorities will not look for you unless you have a criminal record, in Mexico the expectation is that both partners should work, so if the USA or Canada is accusing you of not willing to work for your spose to sit at home you will not be in troubles. My email is zacarias3#yahoo.ca in you are interested. For sure I will request a Police Criminal Record certificate updated and then I can help you do the contact. I am divorced by the way also after 20 years, and I am working and paying allimony but since the kids live with me I am in not much economic trouble, otherwise I would be in Mexico too.

  96. To Jake,

    Thanks for your comments. Great to know that you have made a new life.

    I have no asset to transfer, just debt. Probably the only asset is my company pension which I can’t take out even if I quit my job. Those money will be put into a locked account and won’t be available for me for another 10 years. So all I need is a new passport and a plane ticket if I decide to leave. Worked so hard so far and all I have is my clothes and a car that hasn’t been paid off yet.

    1. Well, basically if you google “countries with extradition to Canada” you should find a list of countries that legally have an obligation to turn you over to Canada as you will be a fugitive at that point. But, the caveat is that if you go to many and keep a low profile, meaning you will not be able to have a glamorous and usually a high income job without being noticed. You will not be able to travel again if it requires using a passport as once they scan it they will know where you are and it will most likely be flagged at that point. The safest bet is go to South America or in Europe and the farther east you go across Europe, the safer you are.

      1. I thought about both south America or Eastern Europe. I just want to be able to have a normal life, make an income, have a new relationship without being afraid to being sent back to Canada. I assume if I went anyplace my passport will be revoked in my absence.

      2. Yes, that is what we all want, but you have to create a list of places you think you would want to go, then look at two factors, do they have agreements with your country in place to help extradite people, and secondly, will they allow you to have a life you want. The one thing most people just cannot grasp is that the life style people want to obtain by running rarely matches up with places that will protect you. You must think of places that you will live modestly yet comfortably, but you should still stay hidden as much as you can. Preferably places with a disdain for laws that impoverish people and places that traditionally do not have or institute alimony and support claims. This leaves several areas, The Middle East, obviously no one wants to go there, Africa, most likely still no one wants to go there, Asia, yeah it’s OK, but still not ideal, Eastern Europe, it has the European life but with less capitulation to the western methods of economic and social slavery. Western Europe you would be in complete hiding, they will abide by the agreements. Also you may want to choose a location that will provide easy citizenship through heritage, work skills, length of stay, or marriage, and lastly places that will let you grease the palm to get your documents, and yes there are still some in Europe, but mostly central and eastern Europe, and Eurasia.

        There is no easy life to be had doing this. You will forever be a fugitive until you somehow close the case or pay it, and fugitives do not live cushy lives. If you want to risk Western Europe, try Greece, Spain, Italy, and then move East. I have personally dealt with many of the other western Euro countries and they view what we are doing as a crime and will act accordingly. I myself have created a 230+ page petition to several countries in the East detailing the various articles of international/UN treaties that are violated by these penalties against us. I also kept in contact with government officials in some countries, until my petition was accepted and I have been granted protection in one country, but I now need to find a way to get there as I have no passport, it was physically taken from me.

      3. Which country is granting you protection? Email me at gonewiththewine99@gmail.com. I have contacts and friends in Italy. I also speak a little of the language. I would like Italy but I was told they would send me back. I still have a passport but for how long???? My ex-wife will assume that is one of the countries I will go to. Also how will I make an income? I am a mid 40 year old with little education. I am very business minded but still does not mean I can work or have a business easily.

  97. Dave and others. Great posts. Here is something that has been alluded to but very vaguely when I don’t think there is any reason to be vague about it:

    It has been mentioned several times that you may seek asylum, but no one has explained the process here. I’d also like to note that seeking asylum is different than seeking refugee status. Asylum seeking is done outside of the country you left while refugee status is done while you remain in your country. Reciprocity is also different than a treaty. For one, the USA and or individual states do not have treaties with any country concerning child support but rather reciprocity. Does reciprocity result in extradition?

    These differences are potentially semantical though…..but thought that I’d get that out of the way.

    Basalt had mentioned that some guy hung out in a trailer in Arizona writing letters out to different countries (with Germany potentially granting Asylum) but he has largely fallen silent.

    A cursory google search of that story has yielded no results.

    I’d like more gory details about how to proceed with a refugee status application.

    To the poster who can’t part with his girls….be prepared for the system to take away your ability to see your children by not enforcing your visitation order if she decides to withhold them and for her to use more child support as leverage just because you tried to ask the court for time with your children. It will be visitation on a bus pass at best….think ahead!

    1. I’d also like to know how to continue to pay the current court ordered child support and get the heck out of dodge since I can’t see my child anyways!

      I’d like to get out now before she “feels” that she should or could be getting more money from me and decides to act on it and a biased judge gives her what she wants.

      Any thoughts there?

      Fair Justice Solutions meant well, but all his solution would be doing is giving away free gifts for a kid that I never get to see on top of court ordered child support which is difficult enough to pay abroad given the lower wages outside the USA.

      1. Well, by reading your post, there is no point in getting out of dodge if you want to continue to pay your support order.

      2. In the USA, there are 3 types of debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy

        1.) Child support
        2.) Alimony
        3.) Student loan debt

        The key difference in USA gov’t student loan debt is they cannot throw you in prison, suspend various licenses, or take your passport. However if the USA backed gov’t loan is not paid on time, interest and penalties accrue much like CS and alimony. So it is very possible to dig a student loan debt hole that is out of control. The USA student loan industry is just as bad as the family courts. Many worthless degrees in USA college land with College financial aid officers pushing loans for profit. A close 2nd cousin to the alimony and CS scam. What can be done with loans is garnishment of wages, social security, and disability benefits of up to 50%. Unsure if they can clean your bank account or put liens on properties.

        If parents ( or whoever ) co signs the loan —they can get stuck paying the whole deal and have their credit possibly ruined. Many stories of students or parents who really don’t know better. When it comes time to pay up, there are 15k to 100k+ tabs to pay in the end. In most of those cases the students pursued worthless unskilled degrees. At a young age one does not know about consequences so much and the loan industry hands out money like candy to students. I think if one cannot afford college, they should work and take classes over a period of years

        Very rarely does the govt discharge loans and clean the slate. Most often the interest is high so the loan is paid forever if the student cannot get suitable job. Recently read stories of student loan debtors deciding to stay over seas as well, when faced with overwhelming debt.

        I only know various stories of asylum. I dont know the exact procedures or how to go about it. If I had to start looking, I would contact various embassies or consulates in the USA. Might be able to get an appointment or speak with someone inside the country. Maybe the trailer guy got out of the USA with the German embassy helping in this manner??

      3. I get that in this particular case, there are a lot of trauma such as sickness, which are often often expensive to treat. Therefore, moral judgements might be affected partly because of the feel good factor of a father who stood in the gap to provide for his sick children. On the other side, a father who took off because he is in such situation is often presented as the bad father, who relinquished his responsibility.

        Now, before I go any further, there are dush bags out there and very difficult women who are influenced by lack of responsibility and greed. In my opinion all parties, including the courts, lawyers and the ex-partners are just as guilty of failing our kids. First, let’s take our ex partners. Some partners try as much as possible to get as much as possible to the point where the living conditions of the other partner becomes unbearable. They refuse to talk, or to really look at the needs of the child. It is interesting to me when parties make statements that ” I wanted to provide for th children.” My question is, why would you claim more than you actually spend on the child? If you are doing that then who’s interest are you actually serving?

        I am in the same situation where am a brilliant dad to my two children. My wife lives in a small village and I live in the city for a better economic opportunity. She has refused all my attempts for equal custody and equal share of the child support cost. She refused to move to the city for us to truely look after the kids. Whiles on a holiday the court ruled that I should pay an amount that is more than a one-third of my salary. She knows it is too much and paying that amount to her will affect my ability to share the primary care cost of our children. I make a six-hour round trip to pick the kids up ever two weeks and three hours round trip to drop the kids. I’ve paid child support every single month. Now if due to difficulty I go through, I move away and bear the pain of moving away temporarily from my children, do you think you can judge me for being an irresponsible father? From this point of view, fleeing and counting the cost seems like the best outcome. The courts are absolutely failing families because of their failures to consider the personal circumstances actual people involved in this pain and suffering.

    2. Although technically you are correct about where an application for asylum or refugee is done, those rules are widely disregarded in today’s world, especially by countries who are more likely to grant them. But, this situation that brings us all here does not fall under refugee status. I have been through this. As for Germany granting asylum, unless you have other considerations other than the debt, then I do not see it happening. I proceeded with mine by causing more problems for the authorities (nothing illegal, just annoying) to the point that they started violating my rights based on the ICCPR treaty for which the US is a party and signatory to. I then communicated with my destination until I could get what I needed, now all I need to do is get there. I will eventually reveal better details in a few months once my journey is complete.

      But, as I have said before, especially concerning western style governments, you better have substantial real threats, not just debt, because they will not care other than that. I for one have skills desirable for my destination and had many citizens petition the government for my help also.

      As far as extradition, once you leave and do not pay, in all western governments, it violates not just a state, but a federal/national law punishable by jail time, making you a fugitive, thereby making you fall under extradition based on your criminal charges.

      1. What you are saying about the rules not being followed does not surprise me. One more dynamic to observe in this big mess with lots of moving parts behind an unknown black iron curtain.

        As to the asylum in Germany, that is what Basalt potentially alluded to. I’d still like to know how one would go about Asylum refugee status once your journey is complete.

        I also have skills relevant to possible to destinations in Western Europe. The strange thing is that google searches have yielded asylum status for those who are buried in student loan debt (another form of debt which just happens to be more politically correct). Posters have indicated that they received asylum status by going to their local attorney and using consequences of default right off the Student Loan website in support of their asylum claim. They report being successful based upon those grounds as well. I don’t know if that is all fabricated or what. The same would apply to “child” support in that the consequences of inability to pay are far worse, e.g. jail. That information is also publically available on websites.

        I know that things don’t work the way that they are written out. If they did, I wouldn’t be financing my estrangement from my child every month.

        Still, I’d like to throw these thoughts out there.

  98. Dave…not sure what you mean.

    First of all, I don’t “want” to pay child support, I think that the obligation is unethical in itself. My being forced to pay someone to keep my kid away from me. Every time that I pay child support, I simply support that estrangement.

    The easiest route is to continue to pay child support because it doesn’t make up a huge percentage of my income.

    The problem is the *modification* that she could get and what she *could* get for life by lifting her pinky.

    My questions are valid and still stand. I am not sure where you are coming from.

    1. Carlas I was referring to this sentence “I’d also like to know how to continue to pay the current court ordered child support and get the heck out of dodge since I can’t see my child anyways!” which says you wish to continue to pay and leave at the same time. Unfortunately unless you have a highly desirable skill wanted outside the US then you will be rolling the dice on what kind of job you can get. You are free to leave anytime you want as long as you have passport, go somewhere and work and still pay her. There is nothing to stop her from asking for a modification, your three choices really are 1. keep doing the status quo, 2. Leave and keep paying her, 3. Leave and never look back and keep every dime you get.

      1. Dave, I don’t “want” or “wish” to do anything. It just happens to be that it is the path of least resistance being that the amount is relatively low as opposed to my earnings or earning capacity.

        There is nothing stopping her from asking for a modification, but I’d have to be personally served notice of an upward modification for her to modify. I have the advantage of speaking with some very good “family” law attorneys on an unlimited basis in my jurisdiction so I pick their brain a lot.

        Service via publication is not permitted in my jurisdiction.

        You mention leaving and never looking back while keeping every dime that I get, but then you mention a high probability of extradition on the other hand. Maybe I am not understanding you correctly.

        If this were you, which of the 3 options would you proceed with?

        I’d like your thoughts.

  99. These countries currently have extradition treaties with Canada: (http://www.yourbestdefence.com/extradition-lawyer/)

    Albania, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, India, Israel, Italy, Korea, Latvia, Liberia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Mexico, Monaco, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, United States and Uruguay are all countries with extradition treaties with Canada.


    For my Canadian friends.

    1. Celia

      I once had a client who left Canada for the Caribbean and had arrears of child and spousal support in excess of $200,000. His passport was taken away from him. Later, during his time outside of Canada, he made a deal with his ex- wife to pay a portion of the arrears and in exchange got his passport back. But several years later, when the arrears had accumulated again, the support enforcement agency had his passport revoked by the federal government. That’s when he called me and asked what he should do. The publicity of his case found its way to the small island he lived on as his ex had a “deadbeat dad” website and a Facebook page about him. He was fired from his job in the Caribbean because of the online allegations, had no money, and couldn’t leave because he had no passport. Not a good situation! Not sure what he did in the end!

  100. There is a town in Mexico, that is famous for having a lot of americans there, people that has been rejected in one way or another in USA/Canada, the place is an amazing place and weather is extraordinary, I am not sure how do they survive, but for sure, you will not feel alone there, the name of the town is San Miguel de Allende, Guanajuato, Mexico. I been there as a visitor. And in 30 years I have never heard of anybody being served or to be deported back to USA/Canada… it is NOT easy to deal with the bureaucracy in Mexico, therefore, it would need a monumental amount of time and money for somebody to accomplish that…. go there if you guys need to flee…. and if you need a job I can help also, again, I would need a Criminal Record police report updated to be sure you will cause no harm. Zacarias3@yahoo.ca

    1. Jose L. Have you any idea how many Men here in Canada get falsely accused and convicted by Hearsay and Guilt By Proxy…myself included? Just because one has a Criminal Record does not necessarily mean that they present a Risk! I’d imagine this happens a lot in the States as well. I won’t even go into the manner in which some Lawyer’s will cajole and pressure a Client into taking a Plea of Guilt to a lesser charge…in order to avoid the possibility of ending up with being tagged with far more serious Charges that a Vexatious Ex may imply to the Police or Crown/District Attorneys. You also get to find out, well after the fact…that you can’t appeal these forced or pressured Plea’s. They also don’t tell you that you only have 30 Days to File Appeal’s? Who can even afford that after paying a shifty lawyer…who just screwed you over even more! Having experienced this Fiasco, and the Man Hating Spew that becomes so obvious. I have lost virtually all respect for the Legal Profession, Law and Government in General. But…That does not make me a Threat or “Risk” to Society!!! Just Saying. Some people make regrettable mistakes also, and in many Case’s, it could have been better dealt with at the Therapeutic and Counselling Level…rather than the Legal One! But No…they just got to build up a Master List of Villians in order to justify their Cash Grabs, and Drain some poor bastard out financially! Probably why so many Canadian Men finally Quit, leave if they still can…or simply commit Suicide!!! I suspect that it’s probably the same in the U.S. and other Western Nation’s?

      1. I do understand, I am just trying to help not to hurt anybody. Please let me know if I can be of assistance, if I can help, I will without breaking the law of course.

  101. Ceile and everyone else::

    Whether you’re Canadian or American, the options are the same. Simply don’t go to any of the countries listed in the following two links:



    Do NOT go to Mexico, as someone suggested, as it is party of the treaties above. Costa Rica would probably be my #1 choice.

    Don’t forget about the power of changing the law though. I talked to the guy who completely changed the Massachusetts family law system. He was just a Kinkos worker with no legislation experience, no money, and no knowledge, but he was motivated and he did it.



    1. How is Hans Mills able to keep his assets/money in the Phil? The Phil is on the first list. According to various posts on the subject, the Phil does not recognize or enforce support/alimony court orders from a foreign jurisdiction. Its possible he keeps his accounts in another Asian country not on the lists of family maintenance. To chase a person down in another country and to fight all the legal red tape would be more costly than its worth in the end? If the ex has money to burn and is super rich to keep paying legal help, then its possible to be pursued indefinitely. We know Donna Mills must be tapped out by now. The Family courts will only go so far to pursue a foreign case. To keep the battle going she will need to retain a lawyer as long as the money holds out.

      Phil is on that 1st list. Do they actually enforce it? For sure one must stay away from Anglo-sphere countries like France, Britain, Australia. The third world gets a bit murky (even if on the list). I would guess most of these countries (Phil?) do not have alimony or CS on the books. So I would think if the CS or alimony is not law in a 3rd world foreign country, they are less likely to purse (even if on the list) or enforce foreign orders

      The only Mass law change I know about is alimony terminating at maybe age 67 or so. Divorced or never married people still have to pay college and CS until age 22 or so. The “change” isnt much to celebrate. When CS and alimony are terminated then we can celebrate.

      1. Forgot Hans Mills is a Phil. resident through marriage. Its doubtful they would ever turn him over. Getting new citizenship in a country without CS or alimony is certainly helpful

    2. I will respectfully disagree, Mexico is very corrupt, and as a consequence, if you go there nobody from OUTSIDE can enforce anything on anybody…I know because I lived there 30+ years… in paper it migth read otherwise, in FACT I can assure you Mexican love foreigners, and will even protect them from the corrupt system…. and Mexico is very close to USA/Canada and a lot of people speak or try to speak English…. I have lived in other Latin american countries, I would go to Mexico if required NOT asia……

    3. What are you talking about, Costa Rica is a totally sold out country, it’s the USA backyard and will bend over backwards for the United Sates, it’s totally Americanized. I would never go there.

      The only way you can get extradited from Mexico is if you are a hard core criminal – Nobody will get extradited for failure to pay child support, show us one case?! Go to Mexico, become a Mexican citizen and stay away from social media.

      FYI – Mexica has a new anti trump government and is doing amazing things right now.

  102. I also want to clarify that a country does not need to have any extradition agreements with the U.S. and/or Canada in order for them to be able to enforce an alimony or child support order. Extradition and “support obligations” are two completely separate concepts. With the treaties above, the local government (Mexico, for example) would be required to enforce the outrageous American or Canadian support decree. They can confiscate your assets and make you pay.

    Of course, if you can’t be found in Mexico, then they can’t hunt you down and enforce the crazy divorce decree. However, just to be on the safe side, I would rather go to a country that is not part of those treaties (see the two links in my previous post for the country list).


  103. Today the media has announced the most corrupt countries in the world… best ranking one in the Americas is Canada, USA is not that bad…. Mexico however is in upper 30’s range…. I know what many have replied trying to persuade some of you looking for a new fresh start to go to places really far away and with a very different way of life compared to USA/Canada…. My recommendation is that you guys willing to do a fresh start give Mexico a try…. I did live there for 30+ years and never heard of anybody being deported as a result of Spousal or Child support , and I know people that would hire you as an English teacher and help you find housing and a decent salary for Mexican level…. And if you change your mind and want to return???? Well you are only one small airplane trip away and a lot of people speak English there…. I did live in Brazil, and it would be the same situation, except depending where you go, people prefer to speak Spanish rather than English and political protocols involved are even worse than in USA/Canada…. I am writing this because I am divorced and have sole custody, but I place myself on your shoes, and if somebody is willing to help me, I would take that chance, therefore, if you need help, please sent me an e-mail, and if you can get to Mexico, I will get you a decent job as a teacher. I am just trying to help.


  104. Just leave him the kids to take care of – he’s more than capable……that’ll teach him.
    Of course, that won’t pay skanky tattoos, iPhones and luxury vacation trips.

    There’s a widespread method to make money called decent work……legalised blackmail is still just that – blackmail.

  105. I am sure the shaming technique helped the woman get money from the father. The shaming will also prevent other men who are going to get conned by the system from protecting themselves from dying broke.

    The only little thing that we forgot is that the goose has been killed – so much for the feminist justice system.

  106. I just thought I would clarify something. Many people only choose one side of the token when it comes to running and whether or not extradition VS Support orders have an impact. Well they both do, you have to consider both, I know this because I have a family member who deals with some of this working in the Federal Government. Most countries are obligated to enforce the support orders, so that could still happen, even if they do not, extradition does have an impact still because when you leave a western country to an international location to avoid support orders, it then becomes a federal crime, so you are then on the big boy list and when your name finally makes it to the top of the stake or you accidentally pop up on the radar and are easily apprehended, chances are that you will be. Now of course if you are in corrupt places like Mexico you could probably just pay off the authorities. But make no mistake any list of levels of corruption is only based on the biased view of the originating creator of that list. The US is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, albeit we just create laws with loopholes to use, it is still corruption.

    1. Dave,

      Please email me regarding your subject matter expertise. snowfox76@sigaint.org
      I’m thinking it is time to get out before a Psychotic Ex destroys everything and everyone around me. A local court official has put ridiculous corruption on display and I think if & when the Court of Appeals gets around to fixing any of it, it’ll be way too late for me. I’m a skilled professional who is free to leave the country legally, but she’ll stop at nothing it appears until she finally gets the courts to destroy me.

  107. I need to get out of the country. I am a decorated vet that was forced out of the service do to medical reasons. I spent the next 4 years working 60 hours a week and going to school at night, I finally landed my dream job 6 months ago and I am about to finish my MBA. When my ex girlfriend is getting award $2200 a month child support payments. I have no way to pay that and be able to pay my bills. Worst of all she was a complete drunk that almost burnt my apartment building down, we broke up and she moved back home 3000 miles away and then told me a month later “I am having twins and you will never see them”…..shoot me

    1. What do you want to do? I am not an expert but have done some research on options to help people such as yourself.

      1. It looks like the difficult part is the ability to get granted residency in a foreign country. I would like to move away, work hard and be able to survive. Right now that is not a option with the courts taking so much money away from me, I am going to end up homeless.

    2. Where do you plan to go?
      You will need money no matter what to start, will you be able to save money for your escape?
      As for getting residency, if you have a valid passport and just get the appropriate visa to enter then all you have to do is stay in a country long enough and work to prove you are not a burden on society.
      I am in another boat, they took my passport out of my hands and of course will not give me a new one. But, the fascist tactics used by the US in these cases are actually illegal by international law which they signed and agreed to. But that does hold much weight in the world. So,I took another route, what is the one thing the courts think they have? Absolute power! So, I lured them into a trap and played a chess game against them LOL, I disobeyed only to the extent that they violated my Civil, Political, and Human rights without going to far, and as a result of their violations I am almost ready to receive a refugee status in another country.
      Anyway, you can get residency easily if you have a valid passport and get a long stay visa to any country you wish and just live and work there.

  108. Anyone with any experience on this from the UK, it all seems related to Canada an USA. There is a lot of talk about REMO on the UK legislation yet not every country seems to be part of REMO. any advise will be welcomed.

  109. Hi! This is my 1st comment here so I just wanted to give a
    quick shout out and say I truly enjoy reading your posts.
    Can you suggest any other blogs/websites/forums that go over the
    same topics? Thank you!

  110. @kbekei

    It seems that you have no experience with what living like this is like…your series of resolutions are not resolutions at all.

    You propose all of these steps yet who is going to pay for your representation in court to have these idealisms asserted to the judge?

    I have had it both ways, I presented the information myself and I presented the information via proxy by way of a lawyer.

    Either way, what child support payor can afford to fight these legal battles. Sure get two or three jobs to fight for what’s right. Then your ex wife and her lawyer will simply base child support on all of those jobs.

    The judge starts screaming at me no matter what I say in court. How do you propose that I or anyone get around a judge like that or any judge who decided that the mother is the custodial parent in the first place?

    The judge has already decided….and you are going to do exactly what to change the corrupt judges mind?

    Your idealisms are politically correct and misguided at best and in the closet feminist at worst. I’d advise that anyone stay clear of kbekei’s advice which is a dime a dozen.

    Where will kbekei be when you get hosed by following it?

    1. John, please understand that I fully support what you’re going through. The system is truly flawed and tilted far too much towards women, but if people don’t fight, nothing changes. I’ve seen time and time again where women end up with a bonanza, while men are left to scrape by.

      I don’t know what State you’re in, but there are lots of support systems in place for fathers/husbands you should avail yourself of. http://www.menstuff.org/resources/resourcefiles/fathers.html If men don’t support one another, who will? By supporting one another is how women got their rights and endured their struggles, so now you and other men need the help and resources that are out there, so use them.

      No, fighting in court is never easy or cheap, but I have to wonder, how does your wife afford it? Also, why haven’t you requested a different judge, or reviewed this judge and his biased rulings? Consider making the Attorny General’s office aware of this judge, who’s obviously biased towards women. Find out all your legal options.

      You are fighting for the remnants of a decent liveable wage, access to your child, and the respect of the judicial system, and if you won’t fight for it, who will? Before you get upset with me, consider what other options you have. Leave the country, then what? How will you live?

      This site is impossible and I can’t find the trail of comments short of going through over 300 others. John, don’t give up, get support, it’s out there. This is one of the reasons I think marriages should be 5-10 year contracts, renewable, with all the contingencies for divorce, child support and so on, drawn out before marriage while everyone’s still in the lovey covey stage.

      Why couples can’t split up or get help before they hate each other is beyond me. And yes, I did exactly that. It was far more amicable and healthier than giving everything over to lawyers and other ridiculous legal fees.

      I’m sorry your ex is a total selfish bi*^h, but if you don’t fight somehow, she and others like her win. Not all women are like her, but enough of them have skewed the courts in their favor, so you and others need to work to change it.

      Get yourself some free legal counsel, it’s out there, and see what options you have. There’s no excuse as to why she can’t work, or why you can’t have shared custody. As for this idiot judge, see what you can do about him. Judges can be censured, perhaps it’s his time. Don’t give up on your kids, they need you.

      1. kbekei….

        The problem is that your post is rational (in an irrational world) but still misguided. You ask where my “wife”….I think you mean “ex-wife” gets her income. Think about it. She gets her money from me. There is no accountability for the money which I pay her, she pays no taxes on it, and I am further crippled because I am taxed as if I never gave her a cent. I am taxed on gross income and the money she gets can either be treated as income or not at her election.

        From there, it is a big snowball effect. Higher interest rates on loans, crippled by the ACA since child support is not considered a deduction for income purposes. (God I wonder how some father’s do it).

        I fully agree with you regarding men and communication. I speak up any time that I can about the issue and you are right in part when you mention that women got this way by communicating.

        I’d still say that the family law system is willfully biased. If it weren’t, a man would statistically have a 50% chance of getting his child from the beginning. To that extend did you know that, the federal government pays 66 percent of the states’ child support administrative overhead costs, 80 percent of computer and technology-enhancement costs, and 90 percent of DNA testing for paternity.

        There is a massive incentive for corruption among the States to get that money. Therefore *SOMEONE* will always pay child support and the man will be the most politically correct target to satisfy the female voting constituents.

        As far as my judge goes…he is the HEAD judge, so going to another judge would not somehow magically get another judge to rule in my favor lest that judge be removed.

        It’s not just this judge, it is the majority of judges out there who rule this way. I believe that it is 19 times out of 20 the judge will side with the mother.

        Free representation? Remember, each locality is different, but generally free representation is only available for criminal matters or catered to the woman. I have tried that many many many times over.
        Subject matter jurisdiction in my case is in a very densely populated area. I am sure that is only part of why I can’t reach a human. Now I live thousands of miles away from my child because I can’t find a job close to my child, but can’t stop paying her. Legal aid in that locality wouldn’t be able to help me any way because I can’t just walk in the office. Legal aid here won’t help because they are not barred in that area. Pro Bono? Sure right….do you know how many times I have tried to go that route?

        For the love of God, please don’t suggest that I move back to that God forsaken place with no jobs either. The State only cares that I can pay and not see my child. If I move back to that area and don’t work then I will end up in jail for failure to pay. How does that strike you as putting myself in a position to fight?

        I’d rather see another day with my new family. That’s right, I didn’t get the snip, I have a new family to think about as opposed to wasting the rest of my life loathing the past. As long as you have a willfully corrupt system, we’d do best to limit our encounters with said system.

        Thanks for the Father’s Rights links. More often than not though, I find that you must donate to the organization while paying child support. Who really has that kind of disposable income? Since laws vary, most groups can’t help you with local issues anyways…taking your money all the while.

        As far as resources for men go, if there were any great, unbiased ones, do you think we would all be posting on a blog that was never intended for this purpose? The Author’s viewpoint is (or at least was) completely contrary to the majority of the help being sought here.

        If we go back to our primitive senses, and really look at what goes on around us then there is no illusion that things are the way they are and it would be well advised to do what we can do with whatever remains of our individual sovereignty.

        I, more than anyone wish that it wasn’t so. I more than anyone else have watched others put up the “good fight” to live in rags, have their child support increased, and never be able to see their kids again.

        Forget that!

  111. Nobody should pay child support or just that little as 0-200 euros/month as in Europe. People are complaining so much about that too so better stop it all at once. Poor people could get hightened governal childcare money instead. (now its. 100-150€/month). Of course childcare and schooling are there almost free. Single mom’s use all money after food to their children, but at least they get to be with them almost all the time and kids are their life.

  112. As a male in this society, I am treated as a beast of burden, a sperm donor, and a meal ticket. I am not treated with respect, I am treated with disrespect and contempt. For that disrespect and contempt, I return hate.

    I’ve reached the point, that I consider western civilization, including the US, the be vile, venal, disgusting, and pointless. There is nothing worth defending; it should be burned to the ground. In a city, if a building is complete garbage, it gets condemned and smashed into rubble. I’d like to see Western civilization condemned like a rat-infested city crackhouse, and smashed into rubble.

    In the unlikely event this country were invaded by Russia or China, or taken over by radical Islam, I wouldn’t fire a single shot in its defense, because I no longer feel that I have a stake in this society.

    I would laugh as the fake Roman-like courthouses are smashed into rubble, and the corrupt system is destroyed. There is nothing worth defending in this pointless, disgusting society. I have no reason to defend it and no loyalty to the people that infest it.

    1. Yes…I know exactly how you feel. This Society doesn’t deserve to be defended anymore. Its Legal System, its Politicians, its Agencies, etc etc…are totally corrupt and criminal. I’m OUT!

  113. Good for him. Court systems everywhere are so bias against men in these situations. He had already given her most of the assets, but that wasn’t good enough. He shouldn’t have to support a lazy ex-wife he refuses to work or even to downgrade her lifestyle. Good for him.

  114. Oh my god, this blog is hilarious. I am a Swiss male, 27 years of age and i never was married nor had a child (yet). And you know what? Thanks to all my poor fellow men here, i don’t plan to do so either! I am of the firm conviction that there should be NO alimony and/or forced child support whatsoever. Yes it is true that it makes the women dependent on her man once she decides to have children with him. But guess what – that’s how it supposed to be! Without alimony and forced child support, a women has to think twice if she really wanna take the wrong guy since it could threaten her and her potential child’s well-being. It also would “sort out” all the irresponsible women who are banging the next door neighbor-asshole, just because he had a six-pack, a long youknowwhat and a “dominant” attitude! Let alone the gold-digging wh………. females. But hey, if you as a man in the west are talking about putting responsibility back to females, you are a misogynistic-women-hating asshole. I for all can not have children here anymore. Not that there aren’t any good women around, THERE ARE! But every one of them does know in her heart of hearts that when it gets though (and one day IT WILL….) – they don’t truly need us anymore. It’s therefore absolutely no wonder that the divorce rate in the U.S. is at 50% with incentives like that!!! Thanks feminism AND statism for destroying ANY family opportunity for me as a young decent western man! I for all will marry a good-hearted, well-intentioned, (hopefully) beautiful Vietnamese women and not do a 50/50 gamble with my whole life. Why? Because I am responsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  115. Hahahahhaahahaaaa….Good…the spoiled dried up hag deserves nothing…I am going to assume she wanted a divorce. cause really…what man in his right mind would shoot himself in the foot by divorcing with 4 kids while being the bread winner.

    she CHOSE to put herself in this situation. she CHOSE to subject her children to this single mom lifestyle (Snap snap, you go grrl!)…Men are tired of being exploited by women like this. we are intelligent, productive human beings who built the world…all the luxuries we take for granted…men made the technologies and infrastructures which allow them to exist. without our productive nature you would still be chasing the primative with the biggest hut and the most seashells. This is why movements like MGTOW exist and are gaining popularity men are walking away. we are DONE with you using our kids as weapons against us in divorce court, with women exploiting our productivity, denying us basic reproductive rights while granting the woman authority to let their unborn children live or die. if they want the baby and we dont want to be a dad…tough shit. if they dont want the child but we will take care of it because we love it. kiss your son/daughter goodbye! She’s going to abort it!

    and when the legal system is used against us, to slam the jackboot of the law on our necks and we dare try to defend ourselves outside of the rules in the rigged game of family court we get sent to the rape cages…hauled off to jail. we get our children taken away or barred from seeing them.

    To the ladies of the world. the 40+ dried up divorcees…the single moms…Bed…Made…Lie… 🙂

  116. FATIMA M. So much inherent sexism in your article!! The very fact that all of you assume that the bread winner is always a man and that the receiver of alimony is always the woman. In my case, I am the woman, the bread winner, the child care payer and payer of all things while he did NOTHING. And I might end up paying alimony for the rest of my working life. And no it is not the same, because I gave birth to our daughter and suffered multiple set backs health and career wise, and still got a job somehow, still paid all our bills somehow. It is not fair to be forced to continue to pay a leech!!!! I am looking to move to another country rather than continue to be exploited for the rest of my life and reading stuff like yours just reminds me of how womxn are the biggest perpetrators of patriarchy!!

  117. When my first husband and I divorced, he had just started his own company, which was his dream. It was not making any money during the first year getting set up, so I gave him half my income for a year. Nothing on paper. He sold it and made a ton of money later. It sickens me that marriage comes down to money in the end. When I left our condo, I took two dressers, a futon, and my bike. I left him the china, crystal, music collection, and all other furniture.

    I’m getting divorced from my second husband, 20 years later. We have a child in middle school, and I’ve been a stay-at-home mom. I only want spousal support for a year or as long as it takes me to get a decent paying job that doesn’t require me to leave my daughter in child care hours every day.

    I don’t see why men should pay spousal support to a woman who is capable of working and does not have small children to care for. All women who are not caring for the children, should work. Get an education. Get training. Why should one person support another person their whole life? Also, I have more respect for prostitutes than I have for women who marry a man with a high status job and money so he will be their meal ticket. At least prostitutes are honest.

    Couples should think long and hard about having children. Growing up in child care with people who don’t care about them, is no kind of childhood for children. Only have children if one parent can be there for them after school.

    I have compassion for single (or married!) women with several children including some with special needs. How hard and unrelentingly stressful and depressing that must be. Those women deserve help! Trust me, going out and working among adults and getting paid for their work, would be a vacation for these women.

    But here is my current situation. My soon-to-be ex just up and left over a year ago to go and live with his girlfriend. He evaded taxes for years and the CRA caught up to him last year. When he finally told me he wanted a divorce, he also informed me that he is filing for bankruptcy so he can avoid paying the CRA, and he has shut down all his bank accounts, (he’s a contractor so he gets paid in cash a lot) and, he said, if the court orders him to pay me support, he will stop working so they can’t get any money out of him. A woman friend pushed me to get a legal aid lawyer. My husband has refused to give my lawyer an address or financial disclosure.

    Not all men are bad. Not all women are bad. The system is biased toward women, but it’s no picnic for all of us women. Evil people come in both genders.

  118. I did exactly the same as this gentleman.
    Judge me all you like but given the choice of being raped by the system and not seeing my kids or having a life and still not seeing my kids. I chose the later.
    Many don’t have that choice as they have assets in the jurisdiction and will lose them no matter what. If it’s not in legal costs it will be to the ex.
    Sure I miss my kids, but as many have said. They may one day seek truth.
    I think more and more are doing this. And who can blame them

    I now live a happy life. Don’t earn as much but then it’s all relative. Why get done over by the system when you can live a good life in the sun with a new girl and a future.

  119. The one positive thing I’ve gotten from all the crap of the system and divorce, is to convince my 18-year old son never to get married. In fact, he is an ardent MGTOW, just like I am now. Men are Going Their Own Way. Now my older son and I are going to work on my 13-year old son, informing him of the truth about marriage and family courts, etc.

    We are all going to be MGTOW. I’m working on spreading the word to as many men as possible that divorce is a raw deal and that men need to boycott woman and marriage for their own survival.

  120. never argue with this crooked feminist writing the article.
    for any men caught in this spider web, my advise for you is to spend a year without working or making less than $10,000, next year child support is recalculated to zero after u file ur taxes. Then leave the country, (ur recalculation will be frozen if u leave the province actually) and have a career where there is no reciprocal agreement, (even in a country with a mutual agreement she cant get your income information).
    It takes some patience, but it is better than being hooked for the next 18 years,

      1. “Imputed” income they call it. And one more reason to check into jail. Jail is more desirable that working your ass off and still having to sleep under a bridge and eat out of dumpsters.

    1. Sir: Anyone who follows your advice, will end up without a valid passport or driver’s license, never mind a stint in jail for contempt of a court order. You are naive to think that a court will allow a payor spouse or former spouse to spend a year “without working” or being underemployed. The court will simply “impute” income to you in the amount previously earned by you…if this was a legitimate option everyone would try it, but it is not.

      As far as me being a feminist ( in the pejorative way you mean it), nothing could be farther from the truth. I have championed men’s and father’s rights for over 20 years. If you bothered to read my articles on joint custody, shared parenting, the escalation of spousal support for women who are capable of supporting themselves, and other men’s rights topics, you would realize how out-to-lunch you are.

      I am a proud member of Leading Women for Shared Parenting, a prestigious organization that lobbies local governments to change outdated custody laws and address child support issues that are not necessarily in the best interests of the child and are devastating to fathers.

      1. Jail is not that bad and you’ll get to be the helpless-victim-parasite for a change. Put enough men in jail for unpaid child support and alimony and they’ll eventually have to turn murderers and rapists loose to make room for them since virtually every jail and prison system in the US operates under some kind of consent decree, statute or court order that requires them to find ways to release inmates once the system reaches 95% of its capacity.

      2. Two comments: Jail is not a desirable place to be, and states and provinces will not release murderers and rapists. It will be drunk drivers, petty crooks, those locked up for possession of drugs and other minor crimes. But thanks for commenting!

      3. After more than 26 years working in state and federal prisons I beg to differ. And it doesn’t take much research to prove me right. But that is a good point. The system will release people who demonstrate that they are a danger to public safety in order to incarcerate men in what amounts to debtor’s prison.

      4. Please email me the research that confirms that murderers and rapists are being freed from prison. If that is actually true, I would like to write about it. I have found nothing to support your statement.
        Here’s what occurred in California after Proposition 47 became law:

        “Passed by voters in November 2014, Prop 47 reduced certain drug possession charges from felonies to misdemeanors and required misdemeanor sentencing for petty theft, receiving stolen property and forging/writing bad checks when the amount involved is $950 or less.”

        “We are happy to see the impact it’s having,” Lenore Anderson, executive director of the Prop 47-sponsoring group Vote Safe, told the media. “The intent of the measure was to stop wasting precious resources on incarcerating people in state prisons for low-level, nonviolent crimes and reinvesting that in treatment and prevention at the local level.”

      5. Yeah well, even in California prison cells don’t grow on trees: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/1400-lifers-released-from-california-prisons-in-last-3-years/

        Nor do they in New York: http://nypost.com/2013/04/28/record-number-of-killers-and-rapists-being-released-from-upstate-prisons-many-returning-to-nyc/

        Then there’s The Heartland: http://www.wthr.com/article/13-investigates-violent-criminals-released-too-soon

        And in California even the Governor isn’t the final authority on whom to release: http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-ff-california-prisons-dip-below-federal-population-cap-20150129-story.html

        And California jails are capped. Right there on page 13 it discusses the order of release for inmates in the El Dorado County jail. I find it hard to believe that a sheriff or jail administrator is going to release a person whom a judge has incarcerated for contempt of court before releasing someone who’s incarcerated for a a felony crime against a person. https://www-cdn.law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Jail-popn-caps-1.15.15.pdf

      6. I am devastated. I am from EU country living (for now) in Switzerland. I got married from love (internet dating.. I don’t say it to draw attention, but now…) a Russian citizen. I worked my a*s off, brought her from Russia to Zurich, have a child (a six year old angel boy) and she had a daughter (not previously married – I wanted adoption, wife couldn’t care less..) She found job last year, 2015, after four years marriage. I celebrated (my own funeral) and Christmas 2015 she simply announced me that “now the marriage is over”. Same night she banged the clown (literally, the animateur short fat guy of the hotel’s kindergarden) and for four months I tried cried plead did everything you can imagine. She found also another boyfriend, local, and one day she said to me “please look after children the weekend, I will be in my boyfriend). I freaked out, said a few words and moved out of the house. Big mistake. A month later, a “friend” told ne she planned everything for years. Saw proof (sms and whatsapp conversations in iPhone, impossible for that “friend” to create – all was true). I am thinking go to Ukraine and simply wait to catch me there, having a ridiculous salary. But chances are that I will be judged by previous income !!!! and called to pay 2000$ per month !! For the next 12 years. She already moved to a new house and boyfriend lives there with her – and my son !! So I ask you. Where is justice? I have detectives reports, sms, witnesses – nothing counts.
        Life turned hell and I’m in the darkest corner..
        Law is fair only if it takes into account the circumstances. As it is now, many women (maybe not all..) are committing the perfect crime and get away with it..

  121. I’m a single dad of three young children and my exwife left the country, I have full custody. She does pay, she pays $600 per month child care. She makes over $100,000 per year. I would like her to pay more but she refuses. But I would never in a million years ask for the amounts of that I see posted here….who could possibly afford to pay $3500 per month! That’s an unfair request for anyone. After my wife left us, I lost my job, my house and my mind…all in the course of a year. I’m currently on disability for mental illness and every day is a struggle. We just moved for the third time in 6 months. I can sympathize with both sides, I can put myself through hell but I shield my kids from it as best as I can.

    1. Allan You are a stand-up guy…congratulations! Where do you live? What country is your wife in? Is she still earning the amount set out in your comment? Am I correct that you are receiving $200 per child? Your situation is not good, perhaps I can provide some advice?

  122. Not sure why anyone here would advise anyone to use the judicial system to get “child” support reduced. You will go broke paying a lawyer to get it reduced and if you attempt to do so pro-se, you will be left alone. No one will know the laws in your locality and that confusion is by design. Each locality has it’s own rules to ensure that no one can help you even if they wanted to.

  123. Is the Family Maintenance Enforcement Program A Criminal Racket [child support collection agency]
    Is Family Maintenance Enforcement a Criminal Racket?

    There are increasing reports of payees not receiving their payments and other reports of long delays in payments which are automatically deducted at source.

    These are the telltale signs of internal corruption where money is diverted by managers into private money market portfolios where that money, your money, is used to gamble on stocks, hedge funds and everything else.

    There are suspicions that FMEP Directors are part of a government bureaucracy that is in league with the drug cartels.

    The provincial court judiciary are part of that mob which may explain why they always help FMEP.

    More reading here; http://themisfmep.blogspot.ca/

    Maximus and Themis are part of one of the greatest schemes of human rights violations in Canadian history.

    Themis, under the leadership of Maximus, has destroyed and impoverished families throughout Canada.

    By publishing the facts about Maximus and Themis we hope to educate the readers so that, over time, there will be a critical mass of public opinion and information that will lead to the downfall of this gangster operation.

    Maximus & Themis are the people who collect your child support payments.
    Lawyers for Themis Ltd claims their policy is not created internally but is given them directly from their Director Chris Beresford. See: 2010-08-11_ANGUS-Beresford-CV.pdf

    They say it is their “Policy” to NEVER return OVERPAYMENTS on Child Support. They say it is their “Policy” or to NOT acknowledge Payments to the Payee directly without going through their Office, saying such payments are “Gifts” only, and will NOT be considered by them to be payments of Child Support. They say their “Policy” of removing Passports and Drivers’ Licenses, and spreading around your SINs to strangers NOT involved in taxation is justified by the “Greater Good” of defending a Child’s Right to receive Support Payments. They claim Themis is a “Creation of Statute”, exercising only the powers given it by Parliament. See Issues: Breach of Trust of a Public Officer, Criminal


  124. Hello guys, I am a single dad with sole custody and paying a now reduced alimony amount, I was married 20 years and I have been due diligent in doing my monthly alimony payments… I do not want to get you bored as each of us has a story to tell, but our best weapon is our brain, do not use the heart other than for taking care of yourself and your kids, Family law is there to be studies in your province or estate, read it, digest it and use it on your advantage…. then push your lawyers to help you achieve your plan, but make a plan based on information and not feelings…. greetings from the great white north in the company of my kids….. p.s. I will legally stop paying alimony after 10 years of doing so very soon, therefore, there is light at the end of the tunnel… you can do the same… write me if you want some tips… I gave you already the main ones…. Greetings, your Canadian happy brother….. Hose-A.

  125. Georgialee Lang, did you have any case when a man leaves the country to avoid paying alimony and then 10-15 years later comes back (say to see his kids). Was this person detained at the airport? Was he thrown in jail? If you can reference some examples that would be great. Thanks!

  126. While I think he should pay child support – paying spousal support is rediculous – everyone CAN WORK she chooses not to … she needs a j.o. b. Like all of us divorced mothers that were housewives at one time
    If I was in her shoes I would have waived spousal support so she would have SOME financial help with the father in her childrens lives I think SHE is to blame he felt his back was against a wall shame on the ex-wife

    1. Well said…. why spousal support was created??? I don’t get it!!! It encourages behaviors like this… find a man be supported and if it goes wrong I can get money and not have to work… everyone needs to pull their weight. There is obviously something wrong…. and yes more and more women think they are entitled to spousal support and it is actually their life goal it sickens me and then all these men think we are the same

    1. You’re absolutely right. Marriage was the biggest mistake I ever made and was treated like a walking ATM and Meal Ticket. I was totally destroyed by the corrupted Court System and had my Career and Health destroyed as a result. If I knew back when I was 25 what I now know at 53…I would never have married or cohabitated! Women get away with Murder in this country and I don’t blame Hans Mills one solitary bit for expatriating…I’d leave if I could too! Canada is a pathetic disgrace. It deserves to go into decline and a waning population and negative Birth Rate! I won’t even help or assist women now…unless it’s a Senior Lady or a very Young Girl. I’m no longer an expendable utility for them, and they can struggle and fight their own battles now…like the strong and independent women, they claim to be?!!! No…I’m neither Sexist or Misogynistic. But I know when it’s time to quit the game!!!

    2. Crosstimbers: MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) is the only sensible option while living in a gynocentric, feminist society. Never marry them and thus deny them the cash and prizes from a divorce. Just like the herbivore men in Japan.

    3. Yep. I’ve seen a friends completely change mentally and physically for the worse after years of marriage. So for me, the logical path is to never get married. Not to mention it’s legally too risky for the man now. Stay single, use your finances to fund a life YOU want.

  127. My ex stopped the court order went to CMS and now owes more because of his greed. When we married he promised if we ever split we would do things 50/50 – childcare and money to bring them up. He lied to CMS and said he had no business and they believed him – (I have no job as he resigned me from our business we ran together as he had more shares) I started a new company and he paid people to take my website down. The kids didn’t want to see him as he was verbally abusive to them ( and physically, financially and mentally to me) so he made us go to mediation and took me to court 5 times to try to force them to see him. They told him what they wanted to feel safe and he refused to do it ( it was about his alcohol problem they wanted him to get help).
    He blames me for everything. I could have sent him to jail for at least 5 years for the things he did to me but I didn’t as he promised he’d change for the sake of the kids. Next time you hear a father’s moaning story and blame the mother for everything , blame her for not having a job and blame her for him not seeing his kids – have a good think about if you are hearing the truth – my kids are being head hunted by top universities – I am funding it by myself until CMS manage to get the money he owes them back for the past year when he lied to them and said he was on a part time wage and looking after the kids.
    The truth will come out eventually but I haven’t yet met a goldigging mother – only mothers struggling to bring up kids who never wanted to be single mums – and girlfreinds of exes that have nice handbags. holidays and cars and moan about how the ex wife is taking money from their luxury lifestyles. Don’t believe these men. If they are running away abroad from their kids over money that proves what type of person they are.

  128. @sally

    You’re in the wrong forum. Your remarks of “his greed”, “lied”, “the kids”, “verbally abusive”, “sent him to jail”, “mothers struggling”… etc. has been used a million times to relegate even the most respectable, responsible and hard working men to a life of near poverty. Not to mention a decent mans life completely wasted.

    Your perceived authority “I could have sent him to jail” is granted to you by the most sexist legislation on the books today. Your arguments here are immaterial in the face of such bias family law practices.

    Know your audience. Post your thoughts in a forum that has the range for it.

  129. This may be weird but I am a women and I am seeking advice also on how to leave the country for me and my partner. Our lives are being destroyed by his ex wanting more and more money I can barely pay for daycare (which I see less and less because I need to work more and more) for my own son and the money I make his sent out to her so she doesn’t have to work and take care of her kids our kids. She now has remove the kids from us… so we don’t even get to see them anymore. We are also small business owners and now she wants to go after this. We need help to get out of this and court just won’t do it for us and put us more into debts. Funny enough just read sally’s post. The reality is different for everyone Sally I was single mom and was receiving no child support and I just dealt with it, and when we agreed on a child support I didn’t try to make him bankrupt. But you know some people feel entitled to money or to just get things without working for it. But remember everyone’s story is different and we cannot judge.

    Please help on where to start what to do

    1. Hey,

      I’m going through my drama as well, but at least it’s two of you and you have each other, but feel free to e-mail me, I can give you some suggestions and let you know what I’m doing.

  130. The wife forced the husband’s hand. The husband just played the best move he could in a bad situation. Unfortunately kids will suffer, but I would have done the exact same thing in this situation.

    1. How ridiculous. Negotiate with the person who is oppressing you through the use of force? Lol. I have heard it all now.

    2. Sounds like a good idea in a normal and agreeable scenario, but sometimes you can’t negotiate with a Terrorist…especially an emotional hate-filled one! This is what a lot of these guys are fleeing, a vindictive Ex who will stop at nothing to ruin and destroy them, alienating them from their children and using the State to bludgeon them to death! I’d screw off too if I could.

  131. A couple of questions here: I am Canadian and have kids with my ex-wife in Canada .. divorced over 8 years ago and moved to the US on a work visa. Met someone new and got married .. got my US citizenship
    I pay a ridiculous amount of child support due to my good job in the US and the inflated exchange rate from US to CAN dollars. Every 3 years my ex-wife comes after me for more money, and it costs me huge amounts to go through this process. It is so stressful, that I’ve contemplated suicide. I understand that if I stop paying child support in Canada, the FRO can come after me and garnish my wages at my US job.

    #1 – If I quit my job and take one that pays under the table (in the US), Canada FRO will issue a bench warrant for me and I’ll be unable to return to Canada (similar to Dave Foley). But will that in any way affect how I live in the US ? Can I be arrested and extradited to Canada from the US ?

    #1a – will this affect any savings, 401k or social security payments when I retire ?

    #2 – If I take my job to one of the countries without a treaty .. Canada FRO will issue a bench warrant for me, revoke my passport and I’ll be unable to return to Canada. Since I am now an American Citizen, will this really affect me ? I’ll still have a valid US passport and be able to travel anywhere.

    #3 – If either of the above is true and viable .. is it advisable to use this information to strong-arm my ex-wife into reducing child support payments. Or should I just disappear with either option ?

      1. A lawyer won’t advise on the disappearing option. You have to remember that a lawyers first duty if with the court.
        It’s your call. If you want to see your kids then you don’t have much choice.
        If you are okay not seeing the kids then I would say your dissapearance is the best option especially as you don’t need to rely on your Canadian passport.
        Always a risk of being jailed if you are in a western country. It’s a risk you will need to accept if you do it.

      2. Yeah .. I really can’t have this conversation with my lawyer as they’d be required to tell me that I’m legally responsible to pay for my kids and that amount of child support is determined by the government, regardless if my ex-wife is working or not and it doesn’t matter what salary she makes, my child support is always going to be based on my salary alone. So I live paycheck to pay check while she spends money on frivolous items. And I have serious doubts that my lawyer would give me any advice that would be related to any illegal activities such as described above. Hence my post to here for any advice or to see if someone has gone through a similar situation.

    1. I like to comment on leaving the country having 2 passports as I have done so. If as in your case the second passport is from a country that does child support enforcement (The Hague convention or other) they will use the law to go after your assets there. If you use the second passport it may not be renewed either. Most important get new 48 page passports and best from both countries. Then you are good to go for 10 years. Revoking never happens if you are not Bin Laden.

  132. Unfortunately the United States is the worst place to be for divorce but suicide should never be the answer.

    I understand your situation. You may be wondering how it came to all this… Here’s how.
    People really don’t understand the gravity of the ‘Marriage License’ and what this means for their liberty. US Constitutional rights and US Civil rights are what made the US one of the most desired places to live in the world, but this is only true if you remain unmarried. Once you get married you effectively wave your Constitutional Rights, and your Civil Rights because all your assets including your time is now under the purview of Family Law which operates outside boundaries of both Constitutional Law, and Civil Law. Judges have even stated to on-record at hearings… “…you do not have Civil rights in this court room”, and thanks to Judicial Immunity there is no legal recourse. This is also true in cases of direct prejudice or malice. This is a fact has been written into law.

    Don’t believe me?
    Think about Alimony and Child Support, and look up the definition of slavery. Now look up the 13th Amendment. Think of your rights as a person under Civil Law. Now; look up Judicial Immunity.
    In criminal court (Civil Court) a person still has their Civil Rights. Under Family Law. You do not. Regardless if you committed no crime, and have never been charged. If you’re guilty of anything; it’s that you’ve chosen to get married. Progressive prejudice and sexism exists, and it thrives under Family Law.

    Alimony and Child Support legislation makes a complete mockery of the US constitutions 13th amendment which abolished slavery. Furthermore; when any and all of your accounts and assets can be liquidated to pay someone else under threat of arrest; this can be appealed and challenged as a violation of your Civil rights if you have any but unfortunately you do not.

    This issue is made even more agregious when you can be held in contempt of court indefinitely if you do not comply with payment. Yes. Thats right. Indefinitely under no formal charge. There is no cap, and Judges have held people for nearly 20 years in some cases. In legal circles they call this ‘having the key to your own jail’ cause all you need to do is pay and you will be released however; this is extortion as you are being held under extreme prejudice without charge, against your will unless you willfully allow yourself to be extorted for sums of money. All this is completely legal under US family law.

    Finally; look up the definition of Oppression.
    US Family Law is outright oppression. It’s framework is based on what can be taken from you and given to someone else. Under Family Law you are effectively a non-citizen. History is full of examples where people have escaped their country of origin based on oppression. People should also remember that if they’ve created a better life in another country they’ve created something else too… a safety net for their children. There may be a day when they find themselves under the very same oppression. Don’t let them succumb to suicide. Bring them to your home. Your home can be a lasting legacy for the children if they need it.

    To be fair there are few success stores out there where people have received real justice under family law, but remember this is not the rule, but the exception. Suicides are much higher in divorced men. Why? The answer is obvious. Escape seems viable solution to taking your life and your only real barrier to that affect is learning a language. I must add you should never fall behind on your support payments or you your travel rights will be revoked.

    People love their children and can continue to support the children from abroad through the use of store-accounts. Provide the family an account. This way spending can be managed, and audited if necessary. Additionally; spending habits can be recorded, and subpoenaed if needed.

    Before you do anything irrational… Please think about relocation. Suicide solves nothing.

  133. Glad this options still exists. Women should think twice before divorce and pressing the men after. We are not slaves to server family that left us! This is women responsibility to keep a family together. In most cases it is a women fault because by nature woman is responsible for atmosphere in the family.

  134. I don’t blame him, I’d do the same. basically she blew the fortune which was given to her and then she wanted to drain him dry of the rest of it.

    Anyone who earns 100k a year and runs out of money is a moron.

  135. What’s ironic is that it’s generally the “good guys” that end up enslaved by the system.

    I don’t use that word lightly either– there is literally no other context where a man can be FORCED to earn however much some judge tells him he *should* earn and then fork over to his ex-wife, under penalty of imprisonment. In any other context, when there is a debt the recourse is to go after assets — so if the ex-husband is living the good life and has cash or other assets, courts can go after those assets. This family court stuff takes it to a whole new level — in these cases, the men DON’T HAVE sufficient assets to meet the judge’s demanded payments, and then they’re hounded and ultimately thrown in prison. It’s mind-blowing when you think about it.

    And these are the men who tried to follow the responsible path of marriage and fatherhood.

    By contrast, how many welfare mothers are out there, popping out one kid after another with multiple men, claiming either to not know who the father is (so he can stay out of jail and be a “hang out once in a while Baby Daddy”) while Baby Mama collects welfare (also paid for by taxes from the good guys). We have such a bloated welfare system in the USA–public housing, Medicaid, foos stamps, govt cell phones!– that throwing men in jail for not paying money THEY DON’T HAVE is ridiculous.

    This has all been inverted from the tradition we’ve had for centuries in the West, which is that if a married couple divorces, the father gets the custody … PLUS the obligation to provide care. That’s a fundamentally fairer system — the person who gets the custody bears the responsibility for the privilege of that custody. Now it’s all upside down–mothers get custody (Dad gets a weekend or couple days) but fathers are on the hook for paying for it.

    If you can’t afford to raise your kids, you shouldn’t have custody of them.

    Or if we’re going to have a welfare state that takes care of the worst, least responsible people, why are we JAILING men who simply don’t have what some judge says they *should* have?

    No wonder men flee this system. I would too, if caught up in this mess. I’d gladly support my children — give me custody. What’s that? The mother wants custody? Then she is responsible for supporting them. What’s that? Mama can’t earn enough money as she wants to maintain the lifestyle to which she’s become accustomed, because she “sacrificed” to stop working and take care of the kids when they were little? Tell me why that’s the father’s fault? (When in truth, having a hardworking husband who worked so that the wife could stay home if she CHOSE to was, again, the man being a “good guy” and being a responsible some breadwinner.)

    This won’t continue – the entire system is collapsing.

  136. I am Canadian and divorced after 20 years of marriage, and I have been paying alimony to my non working “lawyer” wife (she has a degree but decided not to work). I also stay with the two kids 100% of the time, and our agreement calls for 10 years of alimony. I really hurts, but I want to tell everybody outthere, that at the end, the most important part is the love you share with your kids, for me, I see a blessing that I turned poor but keep my kids, and that was my strategy, I used our few assets to divert her atention from the kids… at the end? I did remaind with full custody and shared 50% of the entire assets. I owe her nothing, and my kids love me “almost” as much as I love them … At the start, it was the most agonizing experience of my life, because I did married for life, but it did not work as planned. Our marriage vows were broken and regardless of the reasons why that happen, trust me i did not wanted to be divorced, now I see that as just a bad dream. Best advise I can give? ——-> In 5 years from now, the money can be somehow recovered, but the love of your kids is priceless. The legal system is far from perfect, then , what you negotiate is more important than what you deserve… somethimes you do make a bussiness thinking about winning $10 but you need to conform and be pleased with $7 instead… For sure, having my kids full time with me (we never had to figth for custody in the entire 4 year process) has been amazing !! …. and how do we make iron stronger and more refined? By exposing it to the fire…. what does not kill you will make you stronger. Best regards and keep up the hope, this is temp. pain in the short term for long gain the the future. —-> I still remember when I told my ex that after few year she would have more money than me as a result of the alimony but will be alone, and that her boyfriend will leave her, the same way she left us…. that is true today, 10 years later… and I am redoing my life with a new wife. ….. Still, I wish I never had to go through this horrible experience, but not everything goes as planned, so make lemonate out the sour juice of life if possible, and if not, endure it and be a man. Complaining takes you anywhere, negotiations do.

  137. You have this article entirely backwards. The despicable ones are those who financially raped this man and wonder why their victim ran away?

    1. Exactly, it is amazing how sick and evil these people are. steal your kid and then make a you a slave to the state.

  138. Best of luck and a happy life to this gentleman in the Philippines. For C…. sake…look at the statistics…do not marry or co-habitate.

  139. Bill Clinton’s War on “DeadBeat Dads”……..(Dads)

    My name is Isabella and I am 15 years old. Children love and need both parents in their lives. The current system is so sad, it takes one parent and makes them the outcast, usually the father.

    I did some research and found out why and is breaks my little heart that my beloved America, is corrupt like this.

    Here is how the system works, this may be hard to believe and you may try and fight against it, but it is true.

    When Bill Clinton signed the order to have the United States Government incentivize the States to enforce Child Support laws because tracking down and prosecuting deadbeat fathers is not cheap.

    You may not know this but the States get almost matching dollars from the US Government(Tax Payer, YOU) for every dollar they collect thru the States child support system.

    So far all this sounds good, right. Track down those bad dads that run off and leave the mom holding the bag. Unfortunately when money is involved things can become corrupt.

    I am sure you know someone who has gotten divorced. The standard for divorces now days is one parent gets the child and one parent pays child support thru the State. But you are probably asking, isn’t the Child Support system for Deadbeat dads???

    Like I said earlier that is what it was supposed to be for. The States quickly figured, the more Fathers they have on child support the more money they would get. And since the Father is not a deadbeat dad it is so easy to collect the money, just draft it out of his check every month.

    It has turned into a multi-billion dollar industry for the States and this industry is subsidized by the tax payer. Also the courts and layers are benefiting from this as the parents fights for custody. Note, the money the States received is not earmarked, they can use it for anything.

    If the laws were set for shared custody then the States would lose billions of dollars every year so they have no incentive to change.

    It is sad that my father was taken away from me because of greed, a little girl needs her father to protect her and show her how to be treated by men.

    I hate the child support system for taking my father from me!!!


  140. The article has valuable content, which has helped me a lot. I think if anyone wants to become an expert in BLOG NICHE, then he needs to read your content consistently.

  141. Hi, all – I’ve also been through and taken advantage of by the ruthless U.S. child support system for nearly 20 yrs after two divorces. I recently ran across some very helpful child support advice on how to fight back and navigate through our bias family courts system. The advice will change your life and help you get your freedom back as well as a reason exist. Check out The Child Support Made Simple videos and post your thoughts – feedback: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa2hfcU8wRGt4QjkyVjQzMnNCUHNTaVRlSUdxZ3xBQ3Jtc0tuMUxSNlg0RlBDUHhBc3d3SGtmTWJnLUpWVjJ1dllNc1pLS08xUGRYU2E2cEJEcjBnSWY4YTNpVHF4VWlBZlJjZF83LVFuVlZsaVZWUTViSFEwLWJJNzllelBsa0FpRGcxX2p2RDJfX1J5M0xQX3poUQ&q=https%3A%2F%2FCash.app%2F%24chrish289

  142. I got a vasectomy because I saw what others are going through, I joined the MGTOW/MRA movement — and listened to the Tom Leykis radio show and Michael Adam Sacks attorney on the show — I have no Kids, no marriage, went through college, paid off my cars and my house, have no bills and have traveled all over the world — and had about 7 long term relationships where I did not tell them that I had a vasectomy — they were trying to get pregnant to no avail (I told them that I did not want kids — how I do it is none of there business– I was honest with them) — — friend Paul Elam, on Facebook –listen to MGTOW u-tube videos, invest in the stock market — get some apple, Tesla, and Amazon stock — date older women who can’t get pregnant and are are financially secure professionals — enjoy your life you only live once, don’t be a slave on the corporate plantation for a woman —-

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s